Traffic deaths versus suicide

[dontaskme]

it is when you make claims about medication that has helped a lot of people, including me.

I am not a violent criminal or have no intention of becoming one, i am not involved in anti social behaviour either.

Depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, its a medical condition just like hayfever, you take medication that makes you better. But some of those steroids have side effects also like all medication.

next time you have a headache read the full instructions before you take a tablet, the list of side effects on those are just as long...............

Saying that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain is possibly to mistake the cart and horse. I would claim that depression is more likely to be caused by external factors and that the chemical imbalance is a symptom not the cause.

Taking medication may be effective for some people. However one of the side effects of some of the medications is that young people may be more likely to suicide on the medication.

From the point of view of the health system it makes more financial sense for a GP to prescribe some anti-depressants than for the health system to provide counselling to treat whatever the root causes are.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Saying that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain is possibly to mistake the cart and horse. I would claim that depression is more likely to be caused by external factors and that the chemical imbalance is a symptom not the cause

and you have proof of such a cliam ????

how you can tell someone suffering from depression that is beyond me, have you suffered from depression or takin the medication might i ask ????

 

[dontaskme]

and you have proof of such a cliam ????

how you can tell someone suffering from depression that is beyond me, have you suffered from depression or takin the medication might i ask ????

None of your business.

You have to look beyond the chemical imbalance for the root causes. It could be anyone or any number of things - grief after death of a loved one, unemployment, relationship problems, abuse, drug/alcohol problems, or it could just be that someone has a brain that, for whatever reason, is subject to a chemical imbalance.

If the root causes can be identified and worked through I would suggest that as a better solution than relying on medication.

 

[ubiquitous]

....might i ask have you personly taken anti depressants ???

... have you suffered from depression or takin the medication might i ask ????

Ron, I don't know what you are trying to achieve by quizzing other posters in this way. It will be impossible for us to discuss this topic properly if you persist in asking sensitive, personal questions of everyone whose opinion might differ from your own. God knows the issue is already distressing enough as it is...

 

[Betsy Og]

As a close relative of someone who has bi-polar ("manic") depression (broadly meaning can swing from low periods to high periods - and the highs arent all fun, insomnia, delusions etc etc) I think its clear that:

1. There certainly are cases of depression which are, primarily, due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This form of depression is genetic in nature and so every generation may have one or more suffers (a scary thought when thinking about the next generation). Sufferers of this form of depression will need medication, particularly when suffering the "peak" effects of depression - I dont particularly like the phrase "breakdowns" but thats probably the widely used term.

When someone is going through the horrors of the above then counsellling wont get through and medication is urgently needed to sustain life (maybe that sounds melodramatic but it aint far from the truth). Apart from treating the severe effects sufferers will probably need a maintenance level of medication to try to keep their mood stabilised (lithium etc. etc.).

2. Apart from the above there is depression/stress/burnout/anxiety brought on by life events and which, while it may need medication in the early stages, would be better dealt with in the long run by counselling and learning to cope.

Persons suffering from 1 above will of course be subject to 2 above, moreso than the general population, and therefore should also benefit from counselling. I.e. its often life events that trigger breakdowns.

It always amazes me how so many people think its an either/or situation - you either drug 'em to the eyeballs or you tell 'em get over it. Anyone suffering from depression should get counselling, even if they are convinced that its a purely chemical issue (may or may not be correct) because theres quite a bit to cope with. People without a definite "chemical component" to their depression should be primariy treated by counselling with a view to coming off medication in the long run (only medics can make this call - beware the "miracle curers" who say lay down your medication and come follow me ...).

At least I think the country is ready to discuss the issue. If the next generation get depression I hope it'll be ok to be open about it because all the "hiding" I've seen and been party to is just awful. I think I'll have to take a leaf out of Colm Meaney's book in The Snapper "Do you care what the neighbours think? **** the neighbours! "

 

[Ron Burgundy]

At least I think the country is ready to discuss the issue. If the next generation get depression I hope it'll be ok to be open about it because all the "hiding" I've seen and been party to is just awful. I think I'll have to take a leaf out of Colm Meaney's book in The Snapper "Do you care what the neighbours think? **** the neighbours! "

that sums it all up really.

 

[liteweight]

Very good post BetsyOg! I watched a documentary on Stephen Fry a while ago. In it he was very honest about his depression (bi-polar). For the first time I felt I understood what people who suffer depression really go through. It's a far cry from feeling a bit down and asking someone to pull themselves together, is asking the impossible. He interviewed a number of famous people who were fellow sufferers, in an effort to highlight the illness I suppose. I was amazed at the amount of wonderfully talented people he talked to.

When someone dies in a traffic accident it's undoubtedly a tragedy. Some die through their own foolishness or through the stupidity of others on the road. All leave people behind who cared and will continue to care for them. However, those left behind can rest assured that there was nothing they could do about the situation. The family in which a suicide occurs has not got this luxury. I imagine they spend the rest of their lives wondering 'if I had done something differently would they have ended their life today'. Of course the answer is that they couldn't ........

 

[Gordanus]

As a close relative of someone who has bi-polar ("manic") depression (broadly meaning can swing from low periods to high periods - and the highs arent all fun, insomnia, delusions etc etc) I think its clear that:

1. There certainly are cases of depression which are, primarily, due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This form of depression is genetic in nature and so every generation may have one or more suffers (a scary thought when thinking about the next generation).

At least I think the country is ready to discuss the issue.

Hi Betsy while I'd agree with your sentiments, I'd have to disagree with you on facts - and I have to admit an interest in the area as I am a mental health professional. There's a huge difference between bipolar disorder (used to be known as manic depression) and depression. They are qualitatively different. There is a biological and genetic componant in BPD, but we don't really know about depression. We don't really know the biology of ordinary depression; we don't know how the brain chemistry works. We do know that depression brings about changes in brain chemistry and we know that these changes can be reversed through medication OR by psychotherapy! We do tend to tell people the easy story - take these tablets, and your brain chemistry will become right again, because the real story is very very complicated and not many of us really understand it!

But when you consider that 1 in every 10 people will suffer from depression at some stage of their lives (conservative estimate) I too hope that the talking will increase and the stigma lessen.

Kramer TAM. Mechanisms of Action. MedGenMed 3(1), 2001 [formerly published in Medscape Psychiatry & Mental Health eJournal 6(1), 2001. Available at: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/430539

 

[ubiquitous]

However, those left behind can rest assured that there was nothing they could do about the situation. The family in which a suicide occurs has not got this luxury. I imagine they spend the rest of their lives wondering 'if I had done something differently would they have ended their life today'.........

This is an incorrect and cruel generalisation.

There are many, many families out there who face a direct risk of suicide of a loved one on a daily basis. They do their best to protect them but only can do so much, and sadly once someone takes their own life, the clock can never be turned back. The process of bereavement is always difficult for close relatives when someone dies prematurely. I'm not sure if it is aided by well-meaning but misguided platitudes such as the above.

 

[Betsy Og]

Gordanus, I'm not sure I see where we differ tbh. I think that, in the minds of the general public, bi-polar is a specific category of "depression". Maybe I've strayed outside some technical definition of "depression" but my central point is that all forms of depression are not the same and to try to one size fits all approach, or to treat medication and psychotherapy/conselling as conflicting or mutually exclusive potential solutions surely does a misservice to sufferers.

 

[liteweight]

There are many, many families out there who face a direct risk of suicide of a loved one on a daily basis. They do their best to protect them but only can do so much, and sadly once someone takes their own life, the clock can never be turned back. The process of bereavement is always difficult for close relatives when someone dies prematurely.

Isn't that what I said? It's certainly what I meant! To clarify, I feel that those who lose a loved one through an accident suddenly can do nothing about the circumstances. Those left behind by a suicide FEEL they should have been able to so something. That doesn't mean that they didn't do all in their power while the person was alive. It's just an added burden to bear during the grieving process.

 

[ubiquitous]

I see what you mean.

I think I took your comment a little out of context. Apologies for that.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

i truely believe that not people not touched by this understand ( outside medical professionals in the area) how much it can change you life without help.

I am a man, therefore child birth is alien to me, i could not speak about it as i will never go through it. yet so many peole speak about depression when they have never gone through it personally or as a cose friend or family member. I suffer from depression and here is a little insight into it from my side of things.

Its a strange thing to describe.

You have a good life, a nice car, a lovely house, a good business, great friends, close family. yet your still not feeling right.

You start a cycle of worrying about little things and you worry and worry and three hours later you can't remember what you started worrying or thinking about and still you think on.

All food tastes the same and bland, you eat cause you have to but gain no pleasure from food. Even if it is your favourite or the finest food on the planet.

You go to get and you head starts racing about everything and you can't sleep. eventually you go to sleep and when you wake in the morning you have no energy to get up for the day and would rather just lie there.

You lose interest in your favourite things, maybe its golf or films or whatever but you have no interest in it at all and no motivation to do those things you enjoyed.

You can get moody because you can't figure out why you feel this way and push away friends and family.

This is where the cycle of worry and thoughts get worse and you begin to think negative about everything, work, friends etc.

you feel you can talk to no one becuase of the negative attitude in this country towards depression, this can lead to the ultimate ending which is mentioned through out this thread.

I am lucky in that i don't really care what people think of me, i read a book and realised i had suffered in this way for many years, in a way it destroyed the majority of my 20's but i got help and am in a different place even if i'm back on medication after 2 years ( it came back at me this year).

Ireland needs to wake up to this and treat depression suffers with the respect and care they need and deserve.

Sorry for the long post but i just wanted people to have a small insight into depression from someone you suffers from it.

Ron.

 

[dodo]

How many of these single car crash's are actually suicide ?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How many of these single car crash's are actually suicide ?

do be honest ii don't think anyone knows.

 

[Gordanus]

Gordanus, I'm not sure I see where we differ tbh. I think that, in the minds of the general public, bi-polar is a specific category of "depression".

I guess that's why the name has been changed from Manic Depression to Bipolar Disorder. There's definately a genetic componant to BPD, but not to depression. No great difference as you say, and maybe I wouldn't be as aware of how the public views it.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Every so often a national newspaper will publish an article on suicide. The article usually quotes statistics and there is a certain amount of hand-wringing in relation to 'the stigma of suicide' / 'facing up to suicide' / 'not sweeping suicide under the carpet'. The overriding message is that the root causes of suicide should be addressed and people should confront rather than deny.

Which brings me to the media's reporting of suicide. If a person dies accidentally, of natural causes, as a result of an assault or is murdered their death will be reported as such. However if they commit suicide the reports are inevitably fudged with banal and intelligence-insulting euphemisms such as 'not looking for anyone else in connection', 'fell in front of train', 'entered the river' etc. Frequently a coroner's report will state a verdict of accidental death when it was anything but.

The reason for such reporting is usually given as 'to protect the family' etc. But how can a family face up to a suicide if nobody will dare speak the dreaded 's word'.

On one hand we have the media bemoaning increasing suicide numbers and complaining about people have their heads in the sand about it while simultaneously refusing to tackle the practical issue head on and print the actual facts when it comes to reporting one. This double standard filters downwards to ordinary citizens who will speak in hushed tones about the deceased and rarely mention the why and how of his/her death.

My personal experience in this regard stems from when my uncle committed suicide in 1983. At no stage throughout the years did anybody in my family admit that he took his own life and it was only much later that I accidentally discovered the truth.

 

[liteweight]

I guess that's why the name has been changed from Manic Depression to Bipolar Disorder. There's definately a genetic componant to BPD, but not to depression. No great difference as you say, and maybe I wouldn't be as aware of how the public views it.

I would have thought that the general public should be educated as to the difference especially as there's a genetic component to BPD. To me, BPD is a manic high followed by a dramatic low. During both of these the person can put themselves in danger, either by taking unneccessary risk during the high and thoughts of suicide and worthlessnes when low. What I understand as depression is what Ron Burgundy describes above, a total lack of zest for anything in life, feelings of worthlessness and, a 'what's the use' attitude (?), which creeps in and cannot be overcome no matter how many people tell the person to pull themselves together. They cannot lift themselves up.

I'd imagine that a lot of so called accidents are actually suicides. Sparing the family from reporting it is no bad thing IMO. Not everyone is strong enough to stand up to the glare of publicity in the wake of the death of a loved one. In the old days Catholicism viewed suicide as a sin (maybe it still does?) and the person could not be buried on hallowed ground. I think this gave rise to a lot of secrecy surrounding a suicide.

Also some insurance policies do not pay out if the death is a suicide, so declaring it an accident is beneficial to those left behind.

 

[Gordanus]

I would have thought that the general public should be educated as to the difference especially as there's a genetic component to BPD.

See my earlier remarks regarding Mental health budgets! We barely have enough to provide a(n outdated) acute service, never mind preventative work.

 

[liteweight]

See my earlier remarks regarding Mental health budgets! We barely have enough to provide a(n outdated) acute service, never mind preventative work.

Well that's another question for the politician's when they come calling. My list is becoming very long!