Toxic colleague

[denisoleary]

Many thanks for all the replies. Following another outburst by his colleague and their manager dismissing it, explaining she is having personal issues, my partner handed in his notice. Life too short, enough is enough.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Many thanks for all the replies. Following another outburst by his colleague and their manager dismissing it, explaining she is having personal issues, my partner handed in his notice. Life too short, enough is enough.

That is a load of . Lots of people have personal issues but they don't carry it into the work place and use it as an excuse for being unpleasant to other people. Your partner did the right thing. Her employers are enabling this person and she will carry on being unpleasant to people. For some reason are willing to lose good staff to allow this one person to be unpleasant to other people. Crazy way to run a business.

 

[messyleo]

In fairness, if an employee who has been the victim won't make a formal written complaint that can be investigated there isn't much that can be done. A process needs to be followed and these bullies will be the ones who will pick up on any flaw in the process.

 

[Peanuts20]

Might be worth having a conversation with an employment lawyer to see if there is a case for constructive dismissal.

the real issue here is not the employee with "personal issues", it's the weak management.

Bullying at work

The law protects employees against bullying at work. This page explains the law and your rights if you think you are being bullied at work

www.citizensinformation.ie

 

[WaterWater]

I am sorry that the person had to hand in their notice because someone else was being unpleasant. I wouldn't have handed in my notice. I would have had a meeting with my manager and explained the situation and asked him/her to do something about it. If nothing was done then I would have taken it further.

I hope that this unpleasant person is aware that people are leaving the company because of her.

 

[rustbucket]

Is there an exit interview of any kind? Good place to let them know exactly why they are leaving.

 

[Salvadore]

The manager’s manager needs to be made aware of the unwillingness to tackle a problem that’s causing good staff to leave.

A strong employer would challenge this toxic behaviour up to to point of dismissal if necessary.

 

[Marsupial]

The manager’s manager needs to be made aware of the unwillingness to tackle a problem that’s causing good staff to leave.

A strong employer would challenge this toxic behaviour up to to point of dismissal if necessary.

Problem there is that unless that "strong employer" ensures that the dismissal is done completely by the book - which takes time - they run the risk of being absolutely screwed by the WRC.

 

[Salvadore]

Problem there is that unless that "strong employer" ensures that the dismissal is done completely by the book - which takes time - they run the risk of being absolutely screwed by the WRC.

Perhaps. But even the risk of a negative outcome at the WRC might be preferable to the certainty of the impact that person is currently having. A bitter pill to swallow but perhaps worth it.

 

[Purple]

I am sorry that the person had to hand in their notice because someone else was being unpleasant. I wouldn't have handed in my notice. I would have had a meeting with my manager and explained the situation and asked him/her to do something about it. If nothing was done then I would have taken it further.

I hope that this unpleasant person is aware that people are leaving the company because of her.

It's not up to an employee to fix the incompetence and structural failings of the employer. If there is a same sort of job available for the same sort of money then leaving is the best option for the employee.

Most people in this country work in small businesses which won't have formal HR structures in place. It's very hard to discipline an employee, let alone get rid of them. In the protected sector employers can just move the difficult people around but in the SME sector employers don't have the luxury of spending other people's money "fixing" the problem.

 

[Sunnygirl69]

1. Employee A is being bullied by Employee B - A should write down everything as it happens and immediately email it to his/her private email. Then A has the time and date of the incident, the incident, emotions etc recorded.
2. A should confront management (again) with detailed written complaint. Ensure management writes back with the process it intends to or has done.
or
3. A should confront B verbally with grievance and make it clear if bullying continues management will be forced to act.
4. If a person is being bullied why should he/she leave the job? My work experiences indicate when a bully is being confronted, the bullying stops.

All very well Leper unless it is a HSE workplace.

 

[wondering]

At what point does bullying become bullying? i.e. the person is toxic, difficult to be around etc but would we consider that bullying? I work with someone whom I cannot abide and they're rude, loud and annoying but I don't think I could identify a single episode of bullying. It makes for a very difficult situation to deal with.

I personally think there can be a fine line. If I have to be around someone who is selfish, inconsiderate, loud, etc (aka 'toxic') then even if they're not targeting me intentionally/directly I still have to deal with the fallout. Everyone is affected. As well as this there's a cumulative effect. Over time if you have to go somewhere where it's normal/accepted/expected then you naturally just don't want to go there.

 

[messyleo]

I personally think there can be a fine line. If I have to be around someone who is selfish, inconsiderate, loud, etc (aka 'toxic') then even if they're not targeting me intentionally/directly I still have to deal with the fallout. Everyone is affected. As well as this there's a cumulative effect. Over time if you have to go somewhere where it's normal/accepted/expected then you naturally just don't want to go there.

I totally agree - toxic behaviour, even when not bullying saps energy, morale and instills fear at times. The impact of organisational productivity and your top performers is potentially massive. But unless you have actual clear cut examples, evidenced, and of a direct impact on your personally in a way that explicitly contravenes the bullying policy / code of conduct it's impossible to take it further.

Even when you do have concrete evidence of bullying (and not just a "he said she said" situation) the worst case is usually a warning for the individual and they just learn to be more covert and cover their tracks better going forward. You still have to work with them, and usually whilst they might turn over a new leaf for a few months afterwards, a leopard doesn't change its spots. They just get cleverer about it and more subtle. And you would be surprised just how weak witnesses are in conveniently "not remembering" what happened as they son't want to get heat from the bully themselves.

 

[becky]

I totally agree - toxic behaviour, even when not bullying saps energy, morale and instills fear at times. The impact of organisational productivity and your top performers is potentially massive. But unless you have actual clear cut examples, evidenced, and of a direct impact on your personally in a way that explicitly contravenes the bullying policy / code of conduct it's impossible to take it further.

Even when you do have concrete evidence of bullying (and not just a "he said she said" situation) the worst case is usually a warning for the individual and they just learn to be more covert and cover their tracks better going forward. You still have to work with them, and usually whilst they might turn over a new leaf for a few months afterwards, a leopard doesn't change its spots. They just get cleverer about it and more subtle. And you would be surprised just how weak witnesses are in conveniently "not remembering" what happened as they son't want to get heat from the bully themselves.

I work with a toxic colleague. Her toxicity is she is plain and simple not a team player. Lazy does not describe it as she put lots of effort into it. She is extremely capable.

She does' just enough', off her chair at 5pm on the dot. Nothing wrong with that I know. If she works a little extra, management hear about. She'll leave out it was only an extra 20 minutes.

So, I had sisuation where my department needed help. Boss assigned her but over a few weeks she implied our department was to blame and this meant her work was suffering.

It was done in a very subtle and passive aggressive way but nothing concrete. Me and my staff ended up even more stressed. My staff said they would sleep in the office to achieve what was needed rather than ever take help from her again.

Her misson was therefore accomplished.

I thankfully can avoid her 90% of time. But if it was a case I couldn't I'd move jobs.

 

[messyleo]

That kind of thing is so common unfortunately Becky and unfortunately equally difficult to prove in terms of the bullying conduct - passive aggression can often be explained away by innocence and charm (which often these people are excellent at behind the mask). That's also the kind of behaviour that doesn't seem to ever stop imho. It's psychological and emotional warfare and it is nigh on impossible to prove definitively to an investigator or whatever but is very, very serious in how it affects others. Street angel, house devil.

The "name calling" and getting visibly angry type of bullying is awful to experience too, but at least the "good" part is it is a lot easier to document and prove and i think when it is brought to the attention of the person, there is often a better chance they will check their behaviour subsequently (though not always).

 

[wondering]

Some advice I'd give for dealing with this type is to deal with them in writing as far as possible. Even if something said in-person, put in writing afterwards if possible - for example "Hi X, Just to confirm we agreed it for 9am on Tuesday. See you then."
If agreement not kept then follow up, "Hi X, Confirming we rescheduled it to tomorrow, same time, because of Y this morning. ", etc
If it comes to it later then you have a list of incidents to refer to. Do it even for smaller things that with a normal person you would let go of.

Resist the temptation to respond in person especially when they 'act out'. A basic hello or smalltalk but nothing beyond that. Attention is what they're looking for, whether good or bad. You will find they may go to extremes then to get the attention.

 

[becky]

That kind of thing is so common unfortunately Becky and unfortunately equally difficult to prove in terms of the bullying conduct - passive aggression can often be explained away by innocence and charm (which often these people are excellent at behind the mask). That's also the kind of behaviour that doesn't seem to ever stop imho. It's psychological and emotional warfare and it is nigh on impossible to prove definitively to an investigator or whatever but is very, very serious in how it affects others. Street angel, house devil.

The "name calling" and getting visibly angry type of bullying is awful to experience too, but at least the "good" part is it is a lot easier to document and prove and i think when it is brought to the attention of the person, there is often a better chance they will check their behaviour subsequently (though not always).

Yes, she is extremely charming. I'm not the only person to be a victim of her 'carry on'.

When the 'help' was finished I had a debriefing with my manager. I pointed out this particular individual has been involved in several 'incidents' over the years. This was my first one.

My boss wanted to initiate mediation which I refused. This colleague has been a party to two mediations that I'm aware of. I've never been involved in any mediation.

It actually happened during the 1st wave of Covid and the two colleagues who normally stepped in to help our department (we step in to help them) were WFH due to underlying conditions.

I've learned to move on. No point in wasting my energy on her.

I do have a certain level of admiration for her. She has managed to get to a decent salary level without doing much.

 

[AlbacoreA]

If a manager won't support you, I think its clear which side your bread is buttered. But that will be reflected in the support that manager gets from that employee going forward.

If you keep doing tasks you don't like, you will just get more of them. If you don't do them, or do them poorly or slowly they'll stop asking you. That tends to a behavior management have cultivated.

If you don't deal with toxic people, no one else will either. You can expect low productivity around these people.

 

[AlbacoreA]

...

I've learned to move on. No point in wasting my energy on her.

I do have a certain level of admiration for her. She has managed to get to a decent salary level without doing much.

I tend to do the same. Feint ignorance of what ever they are asking, so I don't have to deal with them. Because they just want you to do their work for them. Then take credit.