Top 10 overseas investments
- Thread starter lopin10
- Start date
- Status
You know what? To heck with whether Romania is a good place to invest or not. It's a marvellous country full of great people. More welcoming than the Irish land of 'a thousand welcomes'. It's been slagged off by so many people who have no idea about what they are saying and if no foriegner ever invested here the country would still be fantastic.
I'm truly heartened to hear so many positive comments here about Romania and romanians. Long may it continue!
I'm truly heartened to hear so many positive comments here about Romania and romanians. Long may it continue!
B
barryo
Guest
Romania is all that Bulgaria is except they have 22m people. What is the average salary in Romania?. Cant be much different than Bulgaria, otherwise it would be over run with Bulgarians. If its the same it will be a long time before there is the domestic demand needed to drive the market there. Wealthy Romanians will be there for the long haul - Are Irish investors prepared to wait that long? I am told organised crime practically runs local government there. To what extent may this be true? Would you bet 50k plus on the answer? Oh I forgot, we all know some really nice people there who assure us that it's a small few giving the country a bad name. TELL yourself all countries have this problem... But your Romanian lawyer will TAKE TAKE care of that, and he was recommended. please!
If you are flush and a seasoned investor commercial property may be worth a punt over the long run in right locations. If you are using equity on your home I say look elsewhere.
Can someone tell me why farm land will increase in value in Romania ?? Facts only please
PS. Drunken paddys are good crack and a risk free generalisation
If you are flush and a seasoned investor commercial property may be worth a punt over the long run in right locations. If you are using equity on your home I say look elsewhere.
Can someone tell me why farm land will increase in value in Romania ?? Facts only please
PS. Drunken paddys are good crack and a risk free generalisation
Re Ancutza's idea on land for biofuel..
There is plenty of agricultural land in Romania, and lots of it for sale if you look hard enough. An awful lot of people got their land restored to them and don't want to pay the taxes on it, so it can be bought very easily. The trick is getting enough of it together in one block; it tends to be in stripes. I bought a biggish tract last year for a client about half way between Bucharest and Constanta for about 50 cent per sq.m. That took a lot of work to assemble, trying to convince everybody to sell together at the same price, but it worked out ok in the end.
My client was a guy who takes a very long view, and is happy to rent the land to a company that is farming it for a small rent, not much over when taxes are paid. He will just forget about it for ten or fifteen years; not many of us can do that.
My own preference is for development opportunities, that's where the real money is, but your idea on biofuel is worth exploring. I would spend a few days in Brussels checking out the likelyhood of EU supports for that kind of venture before committing a lot of money to it. In Ireland and the UK we tend to put a lot of value on land becase of its high price, but in Romania there is lots of agricultural land and not too much value put on it.
There is plenty of agricultural land in Romania, and lots of it for sale if you look hard enough. An awful lot of people got their land restored to them and don't want to pay the taxes on it, so it can be bought very easily. The trick is getting enough of it together in one block; it tends to be in stripes. I bought a biggish tract last year for a client about half way between Bucharest and Constanta for about 50 cent per sq.m. That took a lot of work to assemble, trying to convince everybody to sell together at the same price, but it worked out ok in the end.
My client was a guy who takes a very long view, and is happy to rent the land to a company that is farming it for a small rent, not much over when taxes are paid. He will just forget about it for ten or fifteen years; not many of us can do that.
My own preference is for development opportunities, that's where the real money is, but your idea on biofuel is worth exploring. I would spend a few days in Brussels checking out the likelyhood of EU supports for that kind of venture before committing a lot of money to it. In Ireland and the UK we tend to put a lot of value on land becase of its high price, but in Romania there is lots of agricultural land and not too much value put on it.
Last edited:
Thanks for that Auto, I still think that I'll probably take the punt and then forget about it for 5 -7 years. I agree that the development land is very attractive. I could tell you a couple of my success stories in that area but judging by your above post re: your land on the Black Sea Coast you have done as well as I have (if not a little better!). I haven't sold either and won't start to 'til the Spring.
Now to deal with Barryo...First thing to mention is that I live in Romania and have done for the last 6 years near enough. I speak the language and understand how things work out here. Corruption is a fact of every day life. I'd be a liar to say otherwise. That said, however, it's not the wild west. There are laws enforced by the state. Sure, if my mate is a judge, a well placed lawyer or a member of the Democratic Party then I can swing things a bit (just a little bit) to suit my aims. By and large, however, such matters have no bearing on my day-to-day business.
Now the land thingey..
The reason why agricultural land is such a good deal at the moment is that it is VERY, VERY cheap in a European context. 5 years ago, when I bought my holiday cottage, land in the village was being sold for 700,000 lei per hectare (20 Euro in your money). This Summer I tried to buy some and was quoted a minimum of 25million lei (700 Euro in your money). Thats for land that's all over the place, a hectare here, a hectare there. For land that is COMASAT ( all together) the current going rate is 1200 - 2000+ Euro per hectare. Are you following me? So...after a bit of research on the internet I turn up two interesting snippets of information.
(1) The average cost of 1 hectare of land throughout the EU is 14,000 Euro. That's 2.24 acres to you.
(2) Several large German and French firms are moving in to Romania and buying whatever land they can get their hands on for the growing of oilseed rape, the fundamental ingredient of biodiesel. Read for yourself the EU directives on biodiesel. Ever heard of the company MAN ( you know, the guys who build trucks in Germany)? Major investor in agricultural land throughout Romania, particularly in the western side. 80 million Euro being invested (not by MAN though) in a relatively small refinery for biodiesel in Caras Severin on the southern side of the country. These same guys have bought 150,000 hectares for a start and want to buy more on the western border region. Happily I live in that western border region!
That's the agricultural land thing dealt with...
Now as to how you know that the local economy is NOT driving the upsurgence in the property market then, well, I'm going to bow to your obviously better information on that one.... No doubt you will now explain to us all your reasoning.
You know what? I'm always delighted to debate with informed individuals the pros and cons of Romania or anywhere else but its kinda hard to take when I realise that many who choose to debate the topic own their own methane gas refinery and forgot to don their gas mask when they rolled out of the wrong side of bed this morning...
Now to deal with Barryo...First thing to mention is that I live in Romania and have done for the last 6 years near enough. I speak the language and understand how things work out here. Corruption is a fact of every day life. I'd be a liar to say otherwise. That said, however, it's not the wild west. There are laws enforced by the state. Sure, if my mate is a judge, a well placed lawyer or a member of the Democratic Party then I can swing things a bit (just a little bit) to suit my aims. By and large, however, such matters have no bearing on my day-to-day business.
Now the land thingey..
The reason why agricultural land is such a good deal at the moment is that it is VERY, VERY cheap in a European context. 5 years ago, when I bought my holiday cottage, land in the village was being sold for 700,000 lei per hectare (20 Euro in your money). This Summer I tried to buy some and was quoted a minimum of 25million lei (700 Euro in your money). Thats for land that's all over the place, a hectare here, a hectare there. For land that is COMASAT ( all together) the current going rate is 1200 - 2000+ Euro per hectare. Are you following me? So...after a bit of research on the internet I turn up two interesting snippets of information.
(1) The average cost of 1 hectare of land throughout the EU is 14,000 Euro. That's 2.24 acres to you.
(2) Several large German and French firms are moving in to Romania and buying whatever land they can get their hands on for the growing of oilseed rape, the fundamental ingredient of biodiesel. Read for yourself the EU directives on biodiesel. Ever heard of the company MAN ( you know, the guys who build trucks in Germany)? Major investor in agricultural land throughout Romania, particularly in the western side. 80 million Euro being invested (not by MAN though) in a relatively small refinery for biodiesel in Caras Severin on the southern side of the country. These same guys have bought 150,000 hectares for a start and want to buy more on the western border region. Happily I live in that western border region!
That's the agricultural land thing dealt with...
Now as to how you know that the local economy is NOT driving the upsurgence in the property market then, well, I'm going to bow to your obviously better information on that one.... No doubt you will now explain to us all your reasoning.
You know what? I'm always delighted to debate with informed individuals the pros and cons of Romania or anywhere else but its kinda hard to take when I realise that many who choose to debate the topic own their own methane gas refinery and forgot to don their gas mask when they rolled out of the wrong side of bed this morning...
Last edited:
By the way Auto, the negotiations are always worth the effort. I spent 3 months in the Spring of this year negotiating with 3 vendors to sell 3 adjoining sites. It broke my heart and I was near a nervous breakdown by the end of it, but one sweet morning in May it all came good and I signed a deal which was well below half the parcelled value of the land all of it intravilan (i.e. zoned residential). Got a bit drunk that day!
So you knock Ireland to boost interest in Romania, sad, very sad. Or maybe it's just that neing realistic and honest is too much. Come on, I've never had to pay a "fine" to an Irish cop, been openly offered a child for sex (Brasov) by their parents and usually asking directions in Dublin gets you a positive response and even a walk to the spot - and not be asked for money for the "pleasure". Some objectivity owuld be very helpful.
B
barryo
Guest
Acutza, I like to debate the pros and cons also. All things been subjective I base my opinions on the facts and information from others, and not emotional attachments to decide what is a good/bad investment.
The proof of this is you have got personal and I have not. Best of luck in the wild EAST..
The proof of this is you have got personal and I have not. Best of luck in the wild EAST..
Hey Almo, I never said that Romania is a perfect country. If you read back through my posts then you'll see that I DID say that corruption is a problem but, not too many decades ago, in Ireland it was the same. Romania is Ireland in the 50's/60's so my old man keeps telling me but that doesn't mean it's a right off.
I am not in any way knocking Ireland. I'm irish myself and proud to be so. That said i consider Romania to be more welcoming today than Ireland is today. Just my personal opinion. You may beg to differ but thats your absolute right. We all live in democracies, hey?
Romania has a long, long way to go. That's true, but my comments about investing out here are based purely on my personal, on the ground, experiences.
Furthermore I'm not naive. I've always counselled that potential investors MUST get good local legal advice to avoid being burned. Same as any market really.
Just to restate my position out here. I buy. I don't sell in the sense that none of what I say has any hidden agenda. I'm a small investor and not an EA.
Hope this clarifies things.
I am not in any way knocking Ireland. I'm irish myself and proud to be so. That said i consider Romania to be more welcoming today than Ireland is today. Just my personal opinion. You may beg to differ but thats your absolute right. We all live in democracies, hey?
Romania has a long, long way to go. That's true, but my comments about investing out here are based purely on my personal, on the ground, experiences.
Furthermore I'm not naive. I've always counselled that potential investors MUST get good local legal advice to avoid being burned. Same as any market really.
Just to restate my position out here. I buy. I don't sell in the sense that none of what I say has any hidden agenda. I'm a small investor and not an EA.
Hope this clarifies things.
Last edited:
plasticpaddy
Registered User
- Messages
- 18
Turkey is put in the 4th best place by the London Stock Exchange researchers for 2007, I have no personal view on the listing but I did very well myself.
Glad to see that you have no personal view on this!!
Turkey is no doubt a wonderful place to invest -- if you are a developer selling overpriced tat to Irish and English punters!
The best investment of all in Turkey has to be the guaranteed rrentals on some of the coastal properties. If you are a savvy developer you can take a slice of money off a punter who buys one of your apartments, and then drip feed it back to him (minus your handling fees) and pretend it is his rent roll! So for zero investment, you get 15% management fee on the guy's own money.
Yes, Turkey is great. Wish we could work like that here!
Turkey is no doubt a wonderful place to invest -- if you are a developer selling overpriced tat to Irish and English punters!
The best investment of all in Turkey has to be the guaranteed rrentals on some of the coastal properties. If you are a savvy developer you can take a slice of money off a punter who buys one of your apartments, and then drip feed it back to him (minus your handling fees) and pretend it is his rent roll! So for zero investment, you get 15% management fee on the guy's own money.
Yes, Turkey is great. Wish we could work like that here!
On the basis of my own familys' experiences in Turkey then I'd back it strongly too. My old mum has been out there at least 4 times in the last 5 years and every time comes back raving about the place.
Personally I'd be a little wary of the security issues but she swears that that's cobblers. Still...
I worked with many Turks in my student days in Munich, Germany (back in the 80's) and always found them very nice folk.
Personally I'd be a little wary of the security issues but she swears that that's cobblers. Still...
I worked with many Turks in my student days in Munich, Germany (back in the 80's) and always found them very nice folk.
Last edited:
plasticpaddy
Registered User
- Messages
- 18
Almo, Ankara is the capital city of Turkey mate, not Romania.
? So when do you start 2ndary school?
Where did that come from? That there are Romanians in Ankara? I thought at first it was geography you were a little worried about, but now I realise it's english! Reread the original post and apologise plasticpaddy
Registered User
- Messages
- 18
Common sense invites me not to be arrogant as yourself Almo. I just wanted to understand what has Ankara to do with Romania in the context of this discussion and correct a geography mistake. I owe no apologies.
MortgageMate
Registered User
- Messages
- 105
Exaclty, save the handbags. I looked at this thread out of interest in the top 10 overseas investments, not to hear ego-bashing and boosting. Please
haha, yes plastic, arrogant, like the question you asked wasn't very good one! There was no geographic mistake, there was mention of Romanians and dealings with them which was replied to excellently by Ancutza and politely. Making a mistake reading and then a pretty not so polite post is okay, no need to apologise, and yes, just so you know Ankara is the capital of Turkey, Bucharest of Romania and that is that. See, no arrogance, just politeness.
- Status