Time to repeal the abortion ban in Ireland

B

BeanPole

Guest
As a confident liberal democracy, we are slowly starting to shake off the yoke of the Roman Catholic church in places like healthcare and education.

Is it now time to take the next step and liberalise our abortion laws to bring them in line with the rest of Europe, so that Irish women have the same right to control their fertility as other European women do?

Other predominantly RC countries, such as those in the Mediterranean, have few problems with this.

The arguments that banning abortion reduces the termination rate have again been proved false:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8305217.stm

Indeed, the countries with the lowest abortion rates, such as the Netherlands, are those with the freest availability of contraceptive devices, and the best sex education for their children.
 
'em i don't think so. We women have the same right to control our fertility right now - what some women lack is the ability to prevent unwanted pregnancies - there are plenty of means available.
 
So what right do you have to judge or control the choices that women with unwanted pregnancies face?

At present, such women have the right to travel to anywhere outside Ireland to procure a termination. Why shouldn't they be entitled to obtain this medical procedure in the Republic? Perhaps then we would see the abortion rate drop to a much lower level.

Or are you advocating that we should condemn yet more women to taking the boat over the water, as women have done for generations?
 
So what right do you have to judge or control the choices that women with unwanted pregnancies face?
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What right do you have to deem the life of the unborn child as worthless?


From this I'd understand that you believe that women with unwanted pregnancies are getting pregnant to spite the system. If they knew they could have an abortion in Ireland then they wouldn't get pregnant. Very interested to hear your reasoning behind that statement.

You see it is indeed an emotive subject. I'm not at all religious so none of my views are RC dogma. My opinion is that from a biological point of view we have an obligation to nurture and protect the least able in our society, born or unborn.

My brother is adopted. If my parents had not stepped in then he probably would have been an abortion statistic. His mum (aged 16 and pregnant) stayed with us for 4 months before giving birth and fell in love with my best mate. Hence my brother bears my best mates name. He's a pain in the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language and needs kickings to keep him in line but, 20 years later, he IS wanted. I draw no distinctions between him and the rest of my siblings. He's also a contributing human being albeit taking more than he's contributing for the moment.

One of his best mates is also the product of a 'crisis' pregnacy. In fact his mum was on the gurney being wheeled into surgery in the UK for an abortion when she had a change of heart and asked to be allowed to phone her parents who knew nothing of her situation. Her Dad, at the age of 72, flew to the UK that night and brought her home.

Like I say an emotive subject. No babys are unwanted and thats a fact.

I think the law is just fine as it is although I'd like to see more support offered to women who decide to take the pregnacy to term and either give the baby up for adoption or keep it. I'd vehemently oppose abortion on demand and I suspect my brother would too.
 
Hi Antcutza,

Thanks for your detailed contribution, but I don’t feel that you’ve understood the argument or the evidence presented to date.

To begin with, I am vehemently anti-abortion, but would not condemn any woman in a crisis pregnancy who felt she had no alternative to terminate. Women cannot just be seen as unwilling vessels. If a woman chooses to keep or not to keep a child, we should support her in this decision, and not condemn her.

Too many women in Ireland in this situation don’t feel that they have a choice at present, which is why our termination rate is far in excess of that in more mature liberal democracies. By “banning” abortion, we just force women to take the boat to England. I know – I have met a number of women who have done this and are deeply traumatised by the experience.

If we were far less judgemental and gave our children (and adults) more open and honest sex education, and explained the options that they have to present unwanted pregnancies in the first place as well as the options open to them if they are faced with an unwanted pregnancy, then I think you would see abortion rates drop dramatically in this country.
 
jhegarty said:
You do know how women get pregnant ?

There is plenty of options for contraception in this country.
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I struggle to see your point. No form of contraception is completely reliable. No woman should be forced into a pregnancy.

I think that very few reasonable commentators would view abortion as a form of contraception though. The physical and emotional toll it takes on many women is immense.
 
Ancutza said:
No babys are unwanted and thats a fact.
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No it isnt. There ARE unwanted babies (very unfortunate but true).
However, I dont believe the debate hinges on whether or not the babies are unwanted, but whether or not it is fair to force a woman to continue with a pregnancy that she does not want to continue with.

Its irrelevant whether or not I personally agree with abortion, but the anti abortion lobby force the consequences of their moral choices on others - which I do not agree with.

I am pro choice - a choice that only affects the woman in the situation. Of course the arguement offered here is that the choice doesnt only affect the woman, it affects the unborn child - but it is a matter of opinion for an individual when they believe life begins.
 
truthseeker said:
Its irrelevant whether or not I personally agree with abortion, but the anti abortion lobby force the consequences of their moral choices on others - which I do not agree with.
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+1

As a matter of principle, I also personally object to living under a 'law' which is largely as a consequence of the influence of the RC church (like pub closure on good friday).
 
Caveat said:
+1

As a matter of principle, I also personally object to living under a 'law' which is largely as a consequence of the influence of the RC church (like pub closure on good friday).
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Ill object on the same grounds.

My prediction is that this thread is going to degenerate into the anti abortion side using emotive terms and talking about murdering children etc....while the pro choice side will continue to argue about the rights of a woman....and no one will agree when life begins....etc....

Its a predictable debate that has no real answers because it comes down an individuals moral compass as to whether or not they are anti or pro.
 
This topic was discussed a while back if you do a search. Nothing is going to be achieved by having the same debate again. It's a divisive emotional subject that doesn't belong on Askaboutmoney.
 

Well said..
 
Caveat said:
+1

As a matter of principle, I also personally object to living under a 'law' which is largely as a consequence of the influence of the RC church (like pub closure on good friday).
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I was under the impression it was the result of several referendums.

The church is also against murder. Is that a good reason to legalise it ?
 
jhegarty said:
I was under the impression it was the result of several referendums.
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...the results of which are largely as a result of the influence of the RC church.

The church is also against murder. Is that a good reason to legalise it?
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Which of course is exactly the same thing.

As Sunny says though, it has all been said before. I've nothing to add anyway.
 
jhegarty said:
The church is also against murder. Is that a good reason to legalise it ?
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IMO what the church thinks is no reason to legalise or not legalise something. The church should not have any influence in matters of laws of the state. Thats a different debate altogether though!
 

It was you that advocated abortion as a means for a woman to 'control her fertility'.

Unless a woman has been raped, she has not been 'forced into a pregnancy'.
 
What possesses someone to start a debate on "askaboutmoney" about the rights or wrongs of abortion? Try EUMOM or Magicmum or Rollercoaster if you really want to get into it.
Silly silly.
 
Kitten said:
What possesses someone to start a debate on "askaboutmoney" about the rights or wrongs of abortion? Try EUMOM or Magicmum or Rollercoaster if you really want to get into it.
Silly silly.
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Well this is Letting Off Steam.......
 
Ancutza said:
Like I say an emotive subject. No babys are unwanted and thats a fact.
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I totally agree. Even if the mother does not feel she is in a situation to keep the child there are queues and queues of people prepared to put themselves through the mill in order to adopt a baby. I know this is a very difficult choice for the mother, but surely it's better than terminating the pregnancy.
 
liaconn said:
...there are queues and queues of people prepared to put themselves through the mill in order to adopt a baby.
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It would require for the same number of expectant mothers willing to put themselves through the mill to give birth to a child they dont want for this to be a feasible solution though.
Some women dont want to risk their health, job, social status, finances, emotional well being etc.. to give birth to a child they dont want.
 
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