If you choose to ignore the knock-on effect that a huge pay increase to one section of the public sector will have on other public sector and civil service pay demands that’s your business.
Senior nurses are undoubtedly vastly underpaid compared to their private sector counterparts .....
Im interested, do you have any evidence for the assertion that senior private sector nurses are paid vastly more than their public sector counterparts?
Only through conversation with a senior nurse who has recently rejoined the workforce after a long period of absence. Having looked at both private and public sector work she was shocked by the differences in what was on offer. She didn't give exact details I got the impression it was close to double. When I expressed my surprise that more seniors nurses in the public sector didn't simply leave to work in the private sector she pointed out some of the disadvantages.
She works for an agency so she is essentially working on numerous short-term contracts with no job security (although there certainly didn't appear to be a shortage of work) and none of the pension benefits etc. Working hours can be very long with lots of night-shifts and double-shifts. It also entails a lot more responsibility as the expense of senior nurses means she is often the only senior nurse working the shift with responsibility for all the aides and junior nurses.
i would ask that agancy nurse is if its all that bad why not a) go for position in HSE full time or b) head into private sector for double the money?
Thanks opsbuddy, the next time I need something I write interpreted I will give you a shout. I would love to live in your world where after years of pay increases well in excess of inflation a claim for a 25% hourly rate increase is reasonable and simply a demand for “reasonable pay”. Wherever you are I hope the sun keeps shining.
At no time have I defended the HSE and their role in this. They have offered weak management and have indeed been ham-fisted but they are too inept to be considered bullies.
If you choose to ignore the knock-on effect that a huge pay increase to one section of the public sector will have on other public sector and civil service pay demands that’s your business. Please do not ask others to assess the situation with the same level of economic illiteracy. It is the government’s job to assess situations like this in the context of what is good for the country and I again commend Mary Harney for having the courage to do just that.
I know that I do not have the monopoly say on what is best for nurses, the public sector as a whole, or the economy. To be honest I don’t think that my opinion is important enough to you for you to spend time misinterpreting it. I do think that your view on this issue does not take the wider economic implications into account.Purple, as much as you may think I am 'economically illiterate' and simply out to misinterpret what you say, I am neither. Nor do you have the monopoly say on what is best for nurses, the public sector as a whole, or the economy.
I never suggested it was.What I do from time to time is simply read what you say and point out that your view is not necessarily the only one.
I did not ignore what you said but I don’t have the time to go through everything point by point. I don’t see why Nurses should work a 35 hour week. Everyone on the public sector should work a 39 hour week. Other healthcare workers should have their hours increased and managers should work more hours than those they are over. That’s the way it works for most people in the private sector, in small companies a 39 hour week is a distant aspiration, just like a defined benefit pension.What you seem to do regularly is conveniently ignore parts of what I say. For example, I agreed with Polaris' worthy suggestion that an imaginative approach be taken to addressing the pay issue. I also agreed that a commitment to a time-frame for the implementation of a 35 hour week, followed by pay talks via benchmarking would be a good way forward. I don't know what the answer will be, and I freely admit that, but things cannot remain as they are or the whole damn thing will fall apart.
So how do we fix things without it costing even more jobs in the productive sectors of the econmy?I am not ignoring the FACT that there will be knock-on effects, but that is not justification for allowing things to remain as they are.
AgreedI have no interest in getting into any overly personal exchanges with you over this thread, so lets both try and maintain this discipline.
like this one? http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=11924But the point is, a study of these figures would be free of the sort of bias which I have absolutely no doubt permeates the so-called 'benchmarking' studies which have been used in wage claims to date.
To be honest I don’t think that my opinion is important enough to you for you to spend time misinterpreting it. I do think that your view on this issue does not take the wider economic implications into account.
I never suggested it was.
I did not ignore what you said but I don’t have the time to go through everything point by point.
I don’t see why Nurses should work a 35 hour week. Everyone on the public sector should work a 39 hour week. Other healthcare workers should have their hours increased and managers should work more hours than those they are over. That’s the way it works for most people in the private sector, in small companies a 39 hour week is a distant aspiration, just like a defined benefit pension.
I also disagree with the whole Benchmarking process. Last time it cost the people of Ireland an extra 1.1 billion Euro a year. What did we get in return? Where’s all the increases in productivity?
I was saying that I don't think that you are misinterpreting me.I will resist a response to your first point in the interests of our newly agreed discipline, but I am not sure where I have been misinterpreting you. A contrary view to yours is not misinterpretation.
All nurses have to be in a union to work as far as i know. Even in the private sector they must pay their dues to the union and then the employer must recognise their union (not necessarily agree with them i suspect).
Jasus, that's very hurtfulMaybe we need a new section beyond "The Depths" called "The Absolute Pits" so you guys can vent rather than just let off steam?
This is getting a bit repetitive
Membership of the unions like INO/PNA and SIPTU is optional even in the public sector.
All nurses must register with Bord Altranais but this is the regulator for their profession not the union.
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