Thinking of selling a rental property? You should probably get a move on...

Sellingup said:
Does the new law mean that you can only sell a rented property with sitting tenants?
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There is no law yet. It's a private member's bill that is being debated.

There is no government proposal, but it is likely to include elements of the private member's bill.

It would then need to be approved by the Oireachtas, signed by the president, and commenced by the minister.

I don't think anything will be in force until mid-2022 at the earliest.
 
I do not see what the big problem for a landlord is selling/buying a house with a sitting tenant .It will be a problem for a person buying if they wish to live in it but I presume there will be allowances for this
 
wheeler dealer said:
I do not see what the big problem for a landlord is selling/buying a house with a sitting tenant .It will be a problem for a person buying if they wish to live in it but I presume there will be allowances for this
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That is precisely the problem, no owner occupier in their right mind would consider purchasing a property with a sitting tenant. Anyone purchasing a property with a sitting tenant will just inherit that tenancy and the restriction on terminating the tenancy for their own use would equally apply to them.
 
My previous post on the subject was deleted due to my potty mouth,, but anyway...

Been looking into this a little further. In some other jurisdictions, the new owner if an occupier can have the tenant leave if moving in themselves. The onus is in the new owner though. Ie. The property is sold with the tenant in situ, but if the new owner wants to move in, the tenant needs to vacate. I doubt our guys have made any provision for something like this, but maybe it will come. I can still see that the property would sell at a discount as the tenant can say they have nowhere else to go an stay put, and the new owner then has a major headache in hand. If you have 2 similar apartments and all things being equal except a tenant in situ, would would expect a reasonable discount on the one with the tenant.

I guess the landlord also has the option of sitting tight until the tenant moves on, though you would want to be in no rush to sell. Also, you could look at buying the tenant out, though theres no guarantees here either
 
raven said:
The onus is in the new owner though. Ie. The property is sold with the tenant in situ, but if the new owner wants to move in, the tenant needs to vacate. I doubt our guys have made any provision for something like this, but maybe it will come.
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That is what the Labour bill proposes.

Tenant may opt to stay in place during sale. Two options then:

1) New owner can continue to let it to existing tenant on same terms;
2) New owner can seek to move in themselves and may terminate the tenancy on those grounds.

Not many potential owner occupiers want the risk of clearing out an existing tenant who they have no relationship with. Its potentially time consuming and costly up front. Highly unlikely any bank will lend to an owner occupier without vacant possession too.

The only buyers of properties with sitting tenants will be cash-only landlords. They will need a big discount to market value as well.
 
And then you get statements from politicians wondering why all the small scale landlords are bailing as fast as they can. I didn't think it was possible, but I think this proposal has to be even more stupid than those of Healy-Rae.
 
Even if a bank was willing to take on the risk, very few trading up could afford to take on the additional debt under LTI rules.
 
Thank you
 
There is an article in today's Independent titled "Ministers face accusations that Budget helps landlords while renters are ignored". It states:

"Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien acknowledged it was “tough” for renters and said that within the next two weeks, he would do more to put in a cap on rising rents.

He also said that tenancies of indefinite duration were “a number of weeks away” and they would be a “very significant” change".
 
There are accidental landlords and small landlords, for which any limitations on selling properties could have a negative impact on their livelihood. Would a happy medium be that for these types of landlords the government become the purchasers?
 
Dublinbay12 said:
There are accidental landlords and small landlords, for which any limitations on selling properties could have a negative impact on their livelihood. Would a happy medium be that for these types of landlords the government become the purchasers?
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This will all end really badly. Badly for tenants in particular. Landlords are going to sell up and take profits on higher priced houses, accidential landlords are going to sell up when they get vacant possession, and the rent increases are going to be the maximum permitted annually across the board. All that will be left will be corporate landlords, who charge the maximum market rent possible. If tenants believe in the long run that this will benefit them, it won't. The new renters in years to come will have a lot less properties avaialable and those that are available will be the most expensive. All fine for people in tenancies currently, moreso, if they are below market rent. But in the coming 3-5 years, things are going to come home to roost.
 
Are we sure that tenants do better with individual landlords than corporate landlords? Is there anything to back this up?

Even if there is a big sell off, the properties in question won't disappear off the face of the earth. They still exist as housing stock, whether for rental or for purchase. There will still be people living in them one way or other.
 
Nationwide rent caps are on the way, the Taoiseach has told the Dáil.

Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien is committed to bringing in rent caps within weeks, the Taoiseach declared in the chamber.

Mr O’Brien will “in the next number of weeks, bring in a cap, below the level of inflation, to keep the pressure on rents downwards,” the Taoiseach said.

Nationwide rent caps on the way, Taoiseach tells Dáil after accusation ‘the Government refused to show up for renters’

Nationwide rent caps are on the way, the Taoiseach has told the Dáil.
www.independent.ie
 
RetirementPlan said:
Are we sure that tenants do better with individual landlords than corporate landlords? Is there anything to back this up?
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Show me an instititional landlord who is renting below market rent and I'll show you 3 landlords who are charging below market rent by at least 20%. In addition, I will show you examples of institutional investors leaving apartments in Dublin empty instead of reducing the rents to levels that people can and could afford.

Let you go first and I'll respond.

RetirementPlan said:
Even if there is a big sell off, the properties in question won't disappear off the face of the earth. They still exist as housing stock, whether for rental or for purchase. There will still be people living in them one way or other.
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Correct, but the people living in them wont be renters, they'll be home owners. And what happens tell me to people who can't afford to purchase, where do they go, or what happens to them when these houses move from the rental market to the private home market?

If the number of rental properties decreases and the demand for rental properties doesn't fall at an equal or faster rate, I believe basic economics tells us that prices will rise.
 
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I was hoping for something a bit more reliable than anecdata, to be honest. The example of leaving properties empty is an interesting one, though possibly not unique to institutional landlords. I've seen individual landlords claim online that it's easier to leave a property empty than rent it out, though I've no idea if they actually carry through on this.

If the houses move from the rental market to the private home market, the occupants will be moving also, with a similar impact on the demand side as the supply side.
 
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