The Swine Flu Scam

Of course, but no different to seasonal flu in that respect then.

Just listening to a guy from the UK (on the Last Word) saying that the seasonal flu in Britain would normally be involved in between 6000 - 8000 deaths each year.

But swine flu has killed 200 odd.

So is it really that lethal? If you believe the hype, yeah.
 

Ok. First, what hype? Show me where we've had predictions of Armageddon. And I don't mean references to numbers affected because that's a whole different ball game. You see the hype is actually all in your head. No one is saying this is going to kill half the world or even come as close a proportion of the deaths seen by seasonal flu. That's an assumption made by those who don't understand the difference between an increase in those presenting symptoms (which is all the HSE and every other agency in the world state) and dropping dead on the spot.

Second where do I say I do believe hype or indicate a belief in the hype? Is it because I've read the HSE stats and can see they very clearly state this is a mild condition? Maybe use of "mild" is scare mongering. I dunno, I'm not too up on modern internet vernacular.

The only caveat anyone has ever mentioned is that we don't know how this will develop. And that's it. They've basically stated it may well just puff out of existence, but it may well come back stronger. Influenza is a very simple organism. This is good and bad for us. It's good because it's very easy to develop a nice vaccine, it's bad because its simplicity allows it to mutate and replicate quickly too.

However, unfortunately I have to go over some of those unspeakable things: facts, just to counter the point you make, though I've actually made these points several times before in this thread, alas they don't seem to sink in.

The deaths from seasonal flu are skewed because it affects a greater population of the elderly. It's not a nice thing to say, but the further past 65 you are when you get a dose of the flu, the more likely you are to experience complications as a result. The swine flu is affecting a much younger and healthier population. Another issue is that as a parent if your child is ill, you seek care for them, not always the case with the elderly.

But the age difference alone is enough to say that there will be differences in the mortality rate.

Another issue is again back to the "we don't know" but those deaths and the rate of seasonal flu (around 171 per 100,000) is at its peak. The peak for any flu in the Northern Hemisphere is January, February. We're just in November and the flu symptom rate is way above not only the average, but also the peak rate every recorded in Ireland for seasonal flu. We actually passed the peak rate of seasonal flu at the back end of August, early September. At a time when the flu virus is inactive.

All that says is that we could face a much higher level come the peak period of Jan/Feb 09. Again, just to be very clear no one is saying you'll be stepping over bodies at the check out in Superquinn or that we'll have a plague of zombies (though being honest I really, really hope I do get to see a plague of zombies at some point in my life). Yes it is true all the evil, under the thumb of big pharmachem doctors are saying is that come early next year more people will probably experience flu symptoms than is usual.

Now, that's hardly sending out a message to go and build the air raid shelter, buy a gas mask or stock up on sharp implements for beheading zombies (have mine just in case though).

So that's it. Again, how much clearer can anyone be that the hype and doom is all in other people's heads? It takes about 5 minutes to go to the HSE website and have a scan over their reports just to see people are getting ill, it is mild, but it is increasing.
 
A three year old here was touch and go. Not a mild case. I know of two other people here in our local primary school since the October break who were not mild cases.
 
Wife wants to have kids vaccinated later this month (both under 5) I'm against it but will relent as at the end of the day (hopefully) it can't do any harm?
 
According to todays Irish times there have been 0 deaths in 0-4 age group so far:
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That is what had me worried. I got vaccinated yesterday. I am not prepared to take an unnecessary risk.

Perhaps you are taking an unneccesary risk by getting the vaccine?

Who knows?

I visited a consultant a few weeks back with my pregnant wife, and he advised her NOT to get it with the comment, "I don't think its been tested enough yet and we don't have enough data on its effect".

But thats only his opinion of course.
 
Swine flu vaccine has no effect whatsoever on applications for life assurance as its administration has been recommended by greater medical thoughts.

With no vaccine if you get swine flu and it is not serious then the advantage is that you build up your immune system naturally. If what you get is serious then 2 to 9% of hospital admissions have a fatal outcome. I suppose if there is a second wave, the vaccine will have built you up to a higher level than your natural immune system can match in such a short period of time.

It is a personal choice and similar to the MMR choice many parents make. I took a long time to look at the pros and cons and decided to go with the vaccine. Our three children and ourselves have been vaccinated and so far so good.
 
It's definately a personal choice, just to add my tuppance worth I have a friend who is a nurse in a major regional hospital, she told me today that she saw a peadratic consultant who works in her department and who is pregnant queing up today for the swine flu jab so I suppose that speaks for itself.
 
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the swine flu vaccine isn't safe but plenty of evidence to suggest getting swine flu can be lethal.

Weighing up all the evidence our family choose to have the vaccine yesterday.

Do you mind if I ask on what basis you and you're family were given the vaccine?
I was under the impression that only the high risk groups and medical people were being vaccinated at present.
Perhaps you or some of you're family fall into one of these categories?

There was a very good article in the New Scientist Magazine recently on Swine Flu and on the pros and cons of the vaccine.

Overall, on balance I think we'll (wife and kids) get the vaccine too, whenever they start doing the general population.
 
Hi Bogle, I think at this stage they will give the vaccine to anyone who wants it. For us based on high risk and age.

We listen to French TV a lot and I hear the vaccine was only released to the general public yesterday. Prior to that it was availible to health care professionals but the take up amongst that group was only 10% which surprised me. France with almost 10 times the population of the island of Ireland have only suffered approx the same level of deaths that we here have suffered. I don't know the reason for this one would imagine their mortality experience should be in proportion to ours but then in the Herald Tribune I read Ireland, UK and Iceland have been particularly badly hit.

Hi Bogle, I think at this stage they will give the vaccine to anyone who wants it. Based on high risk and age.

We listen to French TV a lot and I hear the vaccine was only released to the general public yesterday. Prior to that it was availible to health care professionals but the take up amongst that group was only 10% which surprised me. France with almost 10 times the population of the island of Ireland have only suffered approx the same level of deaths that we here have suffered. I don't know the reason for this one would imagine their mortality experience should be in proportion to ours but then in the Hearld Tribune I read Ireland, UK and Iceland have been particulariy badly hit.

I feel based on our circumstances I made the right decision based on the evidence but I know everyone must make their own decision and it is not an easy one. Perhaps I shouldn't try to influence others decision making process by expressing my views.

PS my father used to get New Scientist - a fantastic read and I really should consider a mail order. I respect your opinion.
 
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17th death from swine flu yesterday - unfortunate of course, but the figure remains at zero AFAIK for the amount of victims that have not had underlying health problems.
 
Correct - it has only killed very sick people. Not one single healthy person has died.

Nothing but an over-blown pile of hype.
 
so far, the biggest scare-mongering i've seen was from the groups opposing the swine-flu vaccination /or any other vaccination for that matter/ ... it reads like x-files on speed ...
i mean, it's free, gps or clinics give it for free, you pay no fee for the visit - so why should they be so hell-bent on promoting it? and yet, they'd recommend you to take it if you are a risk group so it's not like it's a gold mine for them ...
most of the people warning against it would in normal times talk about government conspiracies, advising natural medicines and plenty of vitamins /frequently their own as you'd find out on their web page/, feed you horror stories of children suffering from autism or neurodegenerative diseases as a result of a measles vaccination .. in the next step they'd want you to get a machine gun, go through a boot camp of effective guerilla training and ask you to withdraw into the mountains /or bogs in our case/ and wait until your assistance in fight against evil state machinery is needed ...
so for all those who tell me i believe each stupid crap the governments and pharma companies are feeding us, how about you believing each stupid crap because it's AGAINST all authorities /reminds me of the way sulky teenagers think to be honest/ ...
 
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Correct - it has only killed very sick people. Not one single healthy person has died.

Nothing but an over-blown pile of hype.

Not true (unless you consider pregnancy to be an illness) - See [broken link removed]
 
No concrete details available but the 2nd person to die of swine flu in RoI is thought to have NO underlying health conditions

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