…and those rights were enshrined in law and the “class war” as it was, was won. The only group that didn’t realise this were the unions.
Here’s an example; A good living wage in China is (say) €1 a day. This is enough to pay the bills, put the kids though school and put food on the table. In Ireland €10 an hour provides a lower standard of living in real terms. So will you, as a socialist, buy goods produced by the guy in Ireland for twenty times the price of the goods produced by the guy in China? Will you spend €2000 on the kids toys at Christmas (and will you ask everyone else to do the same)? If not then you may begin to understand how international trade and commerce works because at the moment it seems that you have no idea.
Your brand of socialism results in a true race to the bottom which deprives whole generations of hope and any realistic aspiration to a better life. The only reason countries in Southeast Asia have emerged as prosperous and stable political entities over the last 20-25 years is because Japanese and American companies pumped billions of dollars into their economies. Go and ask the tens of thousands of people working in Johor, the disc drive manufacturing capital of the world, if they would rather the big Japanese and US technology companies had stayed at home. Further afield go and ask the thousands of people working for Intel in Costa Rica if the big bad capitalist “Fat Cat” bosses should have stayed away. If you would like to save the air-fare I can tell you the answer; they would laugh in your face and tell you to open your eyes.
2. The HSE - should be abolished.
What century are you living in? Your rhetoric is dated and your anecdotes are not based on the current workplace.
You can take out the "fat cat bosses" confiscate ALL their assets and you will not even scratch the surface of Ireland's shortfall in tax. WAKE UP
What are you talking about russia 1917, do you want a rerun of the twentieth century. The communist revolution collapsed because people are naturally selfish and always want to earn more than their neighbour, is the public service prepared to take a pay cut to equalise their pay with every other worker, i doubt it
Actually, the biggest reform in labour conditions in Europe was due to the Black Death. And was caused by simple supply and demand economics rather than unions or protests. With half the workforce eliminated, there was competition for workers and so employers had to give better terms and conditions or else they couldnt recruit or lost their people to other employers with better conditions. This broke the semi-slavery system that existed up to this time.
I am saying that the terms and conditions of employment that we all take for granted today were won by socialist groups in france and germany and england in the 19 and early 20 century. they were not given in a willing magnamimus way by business. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming.
I am talking about the agricultural/industrial revolution 1750-1850. Black death has nothing to with it.
You seem to be getting confused with your time periods
What is required is government for the people, of the people and by the people (Abe Lincoln). In the modern era you are confusing corruption and ineptitude by governments, and the exploitation that follows within such a failed state, with exploitation due to the economic model that states purport to adhere to. It doesn’t matter if a country is capitalist or socialist if the government fails to legislate and govern for the people its citizens will be exploited. You see the vehicle for that exploitation and you say it is the root cause. In that you are incorrect.Your are interpreting what I am saying based on your own prejudice. Not on the facts of what I am saying. Multinationals who abide by the laws of these countries and offer these people a fair wage based on thier own standard of living is quite acceptable to me. However this is frequently not the case. Where they get the oppurtunity multinationsals have and will contimue to exploit workers in the developing world. This is a fact. And you think otherwise your being nieve. Yes development is important but development that takes into account some basic decency and standards of social justice. And yes if you asked these people would they rather have a job (where they know they are being exploited) or no job at all, they would probably take the job. However this does not lessen the exploitation and the need to try and change it. You want to leave it up to the market place to gradually improve these peoples lives. You fail to realise that in Europe these better conditions were won by trade unions and the left. If someone does not fight for these rights for emerging countries they are not going to be given them.
I am saying that the terms and conditions of employment that we all take for granted today were won by socialist groups in france and germany and england in the 19 and early 20 century.
What is required is government for the people, of the people and by the people (Abe Lincoln). In the modern era you are confusing corruption and ineptitude by governments, and the exploitation that follows within such a failed state, with exploitation due to the economic model that states purport to adhere to. .
It doesn’t matter if a country is capitalist or socialist if the government fails to legislate and govern for the people its citizens will be exploited. You see the vehicle for that exploitation and you say it is the root cause. In that you are incorrect.
By the way csirl is completely correct that the black death was the reason that European peasants and the “low-born” were empowered.
It also lead to the Agricultural revolution and the Industrial revolution.
You are confusing rights of workers to be treated fairly in their contract of employment with individual voting rights. In the UK and Ireland, 1867 and 1884 are the key dates in which male workers won some voting rights. 1867 giving them to landed agricultural workers and urban householders and 1884 extending them more generally.But before this agricultural workers were treated even worse by big and small farmers. The root cause was not capitalism it was the lack of a real universal franchise (even one for men only). Without democracy and government for the people none of this would have happened. I do accept, BTW, that unions played a valuable role in improving rights for average employees. The problem is that they seem to be stuck in the 1920’s and forget that the battles have been won and they are now political lobby groups for protected middle-class state employees.
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