The other side of Michael D Higgins

Labour seeks to impose a collectivist ideology on citizens. That requires excessive restrictions the rights and freedoms of the individual.
 
Purple said:
Labour seeks to impose a collectivist ideology on citizens. That requires excessive restrictions the rights and freedoms of the individual.
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Could we perhaps have a number of examples of how Labour actually follows through this mantra in Ireland ?

I presume that our collective rights & freedoms are enshrined in the constitution - I don't remember the Labour Party attempting to dilute same.
 

Last week's botched referendum power grab was a prime example. The long-running campaign for a so-called 'childrens rights' referendum is another.
 
T McGibney said:
Last week's botched referendum power grab was a prime example. The long-running campaign for a so-called 'childrens rights' referendum is another.
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You will have to be a little more specific.

Weren't both referenda both actual & proposed broadly supported by all parties across the political divide ?

The reference to a " referendum power grab " leaves me puzzled.

The children's rights referendum was first proposed by FF in 2006 by the bould Bertie .
 
Labour is in favour of high taxation and big government. The former weakens the individual and the latter increases the size and power of the government.
 
Purple said:
Labour is in favour of high taxation and big government. The former weakens the individual and the latter increases the size and power of the government.
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Easy to say , but rather more difficult to prove.

Source ?
 
Deiseblue said:
Weren't both referenda both actual & proposed broadly supported by all parties across the political divide ?
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What has this to do with anything?

Deiseblue said:
The reference to a " referendum power grab " leaves me puzzled.
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You don't seem to be aware that the purpose of the failed referendum was to confer additional powers on politicians. Thankfully the electorate rejected it.


Deiseblue said:
The children's rights referendum was first proposed by FF in 2006 by the bould Bertie .
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Again what has this to do with anything?
 
Deiseblue said:
Easy to say , but rather more difficult to prove.

Source ?
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My source is history and common sense.
Socialists seek to create a state which is collectivist in nature. They are in favour of large government and redistribution of wealth.
Whomever controls the wealth controls everything. Therefore if the government controls the wealth then it controls the people. If the people control the wealth them they control the government.
The best historical example in England; when the monarch was restored after the civil war they only power that parliament took from the king was the right to levy taxes. The king could still do whatever he liked but he had to ask parliament to pay for it. That meant that in effect the king was powerless.
The more of the people’s money the state has the more powerful the state is.
By the way the largest party in the last two governments was Fianna Fail. They are a socialist party. Indeed they are typical of a socialist party; riddles with corruption and clientism and lacking the understanding of back economics. At least Labour are less clientist and, for the most part, are not corrupt.
 
History is exactly that - the past.

What facts convince you that the current Irish Labour Party are enemies of individual rights & proponents of higher taxation & bigger Government ?
 
T McGibney said:
Last week's botched referendum power grab was a prime example. The long-running campaign for a so-called 'childrens rights' referendum is another.
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The suggestion inherent in this post is that Labour have somehow gone on a solo run with regard to both these referenda.

Such is definitely not the case particularly as evidenced by the fact that the children's right referendum was first mooted by FF , one must also suppose that FG had a huge say in the referendum on increasing Oireachtas powers which I also rejected as a voter - one after all must not always blindly follow Governmental rationale
 
Deiseblue said:
History is exactly that - the past.

What facts convince you that the current Irish Labour Party are enemies of individual rights & proponents of higher taxation & bigger Government ?
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I have formed my opinion over many years listening to Labour Party members, TD's and supporters as well as observing their actions in government. You cannot re-organise society as Labour wishes without infringing the right of the individual to self determination.

I have great respect for many Labour Party politicians and I regard them as the most ethical party in the Dail, I just disagree with where their objectives will lead us. Big government will always end up imposing unacceptable restrictions on the freedom of the individual and will attempt to manipulate free market economics, the results of which are now being seen in this country.
 
FF is a socialist party as well.


Deiseblue said:
one must also suppose that FG had a huge say in the referendum on increasing Oireachtas powers which I also rejected as a voter - one after all must not always blindly follow Governmental rationale
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Glad to see there's one labour Party member posting here who doesn't always toe the party line. Just keep your head down when the commissar visits or you may end up getting re-educated
 

Well made points Purple , but essentially it is your own personal opinion ( which I respect ) & such opinion remains factually unsupported .
 
Deiseblue said:
Well made points Purple , but essentially it is your own personal opinion ( which I respect ) & such opinion remains factually unsupported .
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Yep, that's why they are called opinions

(Just think how bad I'd be if I could back them up with facts!)
 

Was it not the absence of decent Government oversight of the free market economy in this State that led us to where we are now?
 
dereko1969 said:
Was it not the absence of decent Government oversight of the free market economy in this State that led us to where we are now?
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No, it was state interference in the free market that got us here.
That interference took the form of tax breaks for the construction industry (and others), pay increases in the protected sectors, restrictions in supply in the professions, minimum wage increases and welfare increases that were ahead of inflation and capital spending programmes that pumped more money into an already massively over-heated economy.
The fact that the regulator was asleep at the wheel and the Mandarins in the Department of Finance were more interested in keeping their job and gaining promotion than doing the right thing is secondary to the causes.
 
Purple said:
FF is a socialist party as well.


Glad to see there's one labour Party member posting here who doesn't always toe the party line. Just keep your head down when the commissar visits or you may end up getting re-educated
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FF are a shower of opportunistic chancres whose mantra seems to be " all things to all men " - not socialist by inclination rather vote grabbing political mercenaries.
 
MrMan said:
Source?
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Showtime , the inside story of Fianna Fail in power by Pat Leahy is a good start.

The collusion of FF with developers & the construction industry is also a good reference point.

The continuous reduction to our tax base to buy votes prior to various elections allied to the various tax breaks & the hugely populist savings scheme

More ?
 
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