"The one million suckers who are paying for bailout have taken enough"

[Firefly]

I know the Enterprise Ireland system quite well and generally don't bother applying for grants because a) being East of the Shannon there's very little available and b) the checks and paperwork is considerable (as it should be).
If you are a manufacturing export company in Ireland you get 0% grant aid for capital investment in machinery. In Northern Ireland you get 50%.
If there is any abuse of the EI grants system it takes place in Universities where professors and medical doctors get large grants to develop Intellectual Property which won't be commercialised in Ireland but will give tax free IP royalties to the University and academics who developed it.

Yeah, I hear you. A friend of mine has received several grants for startups. I remember ringing him 2 years ago and he was popping champagne with his wife as the "IE cheque came in". He did have to complete a lot of paperwork but also got his solr to make sure he would benefit from any upside.
Another friend got a grant which covered his wife working part-time at his start up.
As it turns out, neither business did very much.

Whatever you do in life, tapping your fellow taxpayer should be a last resort. Safety nets are great and as a 1st world country we should be proud of the safety nets we have in place. However, safety nets should be used correctly - to break the fall for someone, but as with real safety nets, the idea is that you get out of the net and start climbing again, rather than staying on the net. As more and more people lie in the net, the net will eventually collapse...

 

[losttheplot]

Purple .
{Independent} , seems only to apply only if suits one side of discussion?

Lost the plot.
I hear your 40% , yet circa 100,000 + have moved into employment from dole . I am thinking most didn,t get a 40% uplift but retrieved their pride .

Having been in Welfare Position a few times , it really , really irks me to read some of the posts.
I fully accept we have some leg-lifters but in the scheme of things not too many.

The old saying {walk in their shoes } etc comes to mind.

I think for most it comes down to pride and their background and environment. The uplift in pride would be worth more than 40% to some people. I remember some guys in school whose older siblings, father, uncles were all unemployed. These viewed unemployment as a valid career choice. I can understand someone being practical and as Purple pointed out, if taking into account other expenses you're losing out, can you really blame someone for not taking a job. It's something that really needs to be tackled at a young age. I had my first part time job at 15 and you get a great sense of independence.

3 months was the longest I'd spent unemployed and I hated it. No incentive to do anything as there was always tomorrow. I always felt uncomfortable going to the dole office to sign on. There was always a few, at 9.30 am with cans of cider. I can imagine how difficult it is for someone with children even looking for employment. Having to arrange childcare every time you've an interview, cost of transport to interview (especially if you're not living in Dublin). After a few unsuccessful interviews, I could really see why someone would just give up.

 

[Purple]

I think it's sad that people have so little sense of civil responsibility that their decision to work or stay living off their fellow citizens is not influenced by morality but only money.

 

[Purple]

By the way, as there are 2 million income tax payers but only the top 20% of them make any meaningful net contribution to the exchequer this thread should be titled
"The four hundred thousand suckers who are paying for bailout have taken enough"

 

[blueband]

By the way, as there are 2 million income tax payers but only the top 20% of them make any meaningful net contribution to the exchequer this thread should be titled
"The four hundred thousand suckers who are paying for bailout have taken enough"

Maybe if they really are feeling like suckers they might like to swop places with the 80% that have it so good!! don't think so though...

 

[Purple]

Maybe if they really are feeling like suckers they might like to swop places with the 80% that have it so good!! don't think so though...

Why do you think the other 80% have it so good?
What a strange thing to say.

 

[thedaddyman]

Great post Leper. If everyone was 100% tax compliant in this country we would have a very equal society. There are plenty people scamming off the state and another group to be added to the list are those "Serial Entrepreneurs" who get grants from Enterprise Ireland.

I can't comment on EI but as someone who sits on another board that reviews and approves (or not) grant applications for start-ups and small companies that don't fall into the EI remit couple of points I'd like to make on non-EI grants

• Applicants need to provide an up to date tax cert before payment is made
• Applicants need to provide a business plan and the committee quite regularly rip these to shreds if it is appropriate. I've seen companies apply 3 or 4 times before they get an award. That may be frustrating for the applicant but the quality of their final plan and the thought they had to put into their business over the period will stand to them
• A proportion of the grant aid is normally refundable
• We quite regularly refuse applicants who may perceive a gap in the market but there may not be a market in the gap
• I've never seen an applicant that get's the full amount applied for and most are required to provide at least 30% of matching funds themselves for anything major. For example, there was an initiative on ecommerce last year where most applicants got €2.5k for upgrading their websites and e commerce platforms, providing the business matched it with another €2.5k
• I have no problem with serial entrepreneurs, every successful business person has failed at some stage in their life. Having said that, one of our biggest challenges is ensuring that a previous failure will not drag down a new start-up
• the amount of grant money not drawn down never ceases to amaze me

 

[Purple]

Enterprise Ireland grants are given for money you spend, not for income for the recipient. If that's what they are using it for then it's fraud.