It's not in Ireland's interest or in the interest of any of the smaller countries, Lisbon is a power grab by the bigger states. Most voters aren't aware of how Lisbon drastically reduces Ireland's voting strength. Such information doesn't appear in the DFA booklet or any of the political party pro-Lisbon leaflets I've seen, no mention of any trade-off or downside. If Lisbon were passed after a robust, honest and open debate then fine. But the Yes men don't want the people to understand what's in the treaty. It's depressing really.Surely that's more democratic (one man one vote) not less
Anything agreed or passed by QMV at EU level is effectively set in stone. No government we elect can undo any such EU laws or regulations.The reason we will end up paying water charges is to pay for benchmarking.
If Lisbon is pushed through you may as well forget your (intelligent intellectually worthy, no doubtDo bear in mind that I am a pro-EU social liberal with a strong dislike for nationalism but have strong Republican tendencies (but not the stupid intellectually vacuous Irish nationalist brand).
I am in favour of water charges, and other environmental taxes) as long as there is a mechanism in place to help those on low incomes.Anything agreed or passed by QMV at EU level is effectively set in stone. No government we elect can undo any such EU laws or regulations.
As long as the EU is a republic I will be happy to be part of the United States of Europe.If Lisbon is pushed through you may as well forget your (intelligent intellectually worthy, no doubt) Republican tendencies as Ireland will be more an EU province than a Republic.
Ditto.I am in favour of water charges, and other environmental taxes) as long as there is a mechanism in place to help those on low incomes.
As long as the EU is a republic I will be happy to be part of the United States of Europe.
I am a pro-EU social liberal with a strong dislike for nationalism but have strong Republican tendencies (but not the stupid intellectually vacuous Irish nationalist brand).
Water charges, specifically, are not the point, but rather that decisions become set in stone and no government we elect can change them (at home, if you will)I am in favour of water charges, and other environmental taxes) as long as there is a mechanism in place to help those on low incomes.
You'll be voting Yes with your eyes open, can't argue with that. My issue is that many people, rather than find out for themselves, will 'trust' the politicians (who are hiding that Lisbon creates an EU State of which we all become citizens, the power transfer to Brussels, militarisation, tax implications etc). Do you not agree that the politicians are more concerned with passing Lisbon, whatever it takes, than with explaining what it contains and what the trade-offs are? I suppose I just favour a Europe which is about ease of travel and fair trade rather than the Lisbon super-state model, and that we should retain the ability to elect an Irish government that can make or repeal laws for Ireland and which are relevant to Irish citizens.As long as the EU is a republic I will be happy to be part of the United States of Europe.
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Originally Posted by csirl http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=616688#post616688
Where do you start? The EU Commission is not elected, yet it makes decisions that should have democratic accountability. The seats in the EU Parliament are not allocated evenly - some countries have more seats per population that others (I know Ireland is one of these, but that doesnt make it right). Also some countries with similar populations e.g. France & Poland, do not have a similar number of seats. There is also an attitude that if something wont fly with the Parliament, which has some democratic accountability, then just use the Commission to get it done. I know some people will argue that the Commission is appointed by various Governments etc. etc. and therefore is democratic because the Governments were elected. But I think that this argument is weak as the Commission is too many degrees of separation away from any sort of democratic accountability to make it democratic.
The Labour Party webpage on [broken link removed] makes a good riposte to that.
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The Reform Treaty gives a greater role for the Oireachtas and other national parliaments in screening new proposals. If nine parliaments believe a proposal breaches the subsidiarity principle, whereby decisions must be taken as close as possible to the citizen, the Commission must explain it further or table a redraft. If 15 have such concerns and if either half the Member States or MEPs agree,the proposal falls.
95% of European laws, including justice and home affairs issues for the first time, become subject toamendment or veto by MEPs ('co-decision').
It provides for greater transparency by insisting that national ministers meeting in Council mustmeet in public when discussing and adopting laws.
All EU spending, including agricultural spending for the first time, must be approved by MEPs.
It provides for a 'Citizens Initiative' whereby one million EU citizens can request action by the EU inareas of EU competence.
It provides for the election of the European Commission President and the appointment of theCommission by the European Parliament. EU Prime Ministers will continue to nominate the candidate for Commission President but must take account of the political balance arising from the preceding European Parliament elections (e.g. if the Socialist Group emerges as the largest group in theEP after the June 2009 elections, the next nominee for Commission President is likely to be a socialist). These changes will make it clear that the Commission is not an 'unaccountable bureaucracy' butan executive dependent on the continued confidence of MEPs, who can dismiss it.
It ensures that small countries like Ireland will continue to enjoy a disproportionate weight withinthe Council and the Parliament.
It provides for regular talks between the European level Social Partners and for a structured dialoguebetween the EU and civic society, including religious and non-confessional organisations.
It ensures that small countries like Ireland will continue to enjoy a disproportionate weight withinthe Council and the Parliament.
Do you seriously think that is the case purple. Yes its possible but not very. look at the political family dynasties in this country and tell me how easy it is for the average ill educated person to get anywhere in politics.Any low born, ill-educated badly connected citizen (like me) can become the leader of the country. All one has to do is work your ass off for years in the background before seeking election to a very insecure high pressure job
Our current President and last prime minister were not part of a political dynasty. The fact that some families are politically active will make it more likely that their members will become politicians. Without such families our democracy would not work. Such families should be thanked for their public service, not subjected to innuendo and ridicule.Do you seriously think that is the case purple. Yes its possible but not very. look at the political family dynasties in this country and tell me how easy it is for the average ill educated person to get anywhere in politics.
You say you understand the term Hegagmony. Your last post on the topic does not really suggest you do.
The fact that some families are politically active will make it more likely that their members will become politicians.
Without such families our democracy would not work. Such families should be thanked for their public service, not subjected to innuendo and ridicule.
This does not mean that those who choose to enter politics cannot (or do not) do well without having well connected families.
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How many of the current crop of Govt Ministers had a parent as TD or Senator? Only a few by my count - Lenihan, Coughlan, Hanafin, Cowen. Any more?
I think that all of the above have shown the ability to hold the office that they do. Any government which was constructed based on nepotism would not last long.By your own rationale thats 27% of the current cabinate. Or are you being ironic?
You are ignoring the fact that they have to stand for election by the people.Your not getting my point. Yes they all have ability but they all happpen to be from political families and overall that is not good for democracy as it places power in the hands of an elete few. Several kings in history had ability is that a reason to uphold monarchy?
If we are being realistic here these sons and daughters of politicans are being gentley nugged throughout thier life in the right direction and given that ever so slightly wink and a nod and a little bit of help. their qualities pushed to the fore by politically powerful parents and associates while their failings ignored. Trouble is that equation is reversed for thier political compeditors in thier own parties. All the while the matra of "hes/shes got there throught their own ability not throught parental support" is being spouted.
Do you seriously think that is the case purple. Yes its possible but not very. look at the political family dynasties in this country and tell me how easy it is for the average ill educated person to get anywhere in politics.
Can you spell out exactly what you mean here?Lisbon is a power grab by the bigger states. .
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