How so?I don't think FG are too far off neoliberal in their own values.
Again, it looks like you're judging FG more by their achievements in coalition governments, with all the inherent compromises that go with that, rather than on their actual values. I can't particularly think of examples now, but their masks tend to slip from time to time, where they expose themselves as fairly naked Tories. I'll see if I can remember to post back here next time I notice.How so?
They have consistently increased welfare payments, increased public spending on health and education, increased marginal income tax rates, voted for the depositor bail out after the Banks collapsed, increased spending on social housing... what policies do they have that are neoliberal?
There is no Party in Ireland that is anything close to neoliberal, thankfully. There is no Party that could even be described as right or centre, except by those on the far left or those that are delusional.
How could you be so misguided.Again, it looks like you're judging FG more by their achievements in coalition governments,
Except:Very good article from the Guardian here by the always excellent Nick Cohen (whether you agree with him or not) that puts poor Una Mullally's effort to shame by comparison.
So which of these politicians is a neoliberal? Not one of them | Nick Cohen
A new study on the movement suggests that its abiding legacy might be as an insultwww.theguardian.com
I think the likes of Una Mullally, Fintan O'Toole, Gene Kerrigan et al mean a condemnation on a par with Fascist. and leaves us in no doubt that they mean a very bad thing.Nick Cohen said:If you call opponents “fascist” or a “fundamentalist”, however, at least your audience knows you are condemning them. A “neoliberal” though? Most people won’t know what you are talking about, but will guess that it doesn’t sound such a bad thing to be.
Cohen's very next sentence captures the phenomenon perfectly!Except:
I think the likes of Una Mullally, Fintan O'Toole, Gene Kerrigan et al mean a condemnation on a par with Fascist. and leaves us in no doubt that they mean a very bad thing.
Mullally, O'Toole and Kerrigan are that minority.The exceptions will be the minority immersed in leftwing thought. They alone are primed to shudder at the sound of the word.
You would have to be on the far right or delusional to think that there is no party in Ireland that could be described as centre. Fine Gael describes itself as Progressive Centre. Wikipedia describes it as Centre-Right and gives four external references for this classification.How so?
They have consistently increased welfare payments, increased public spending on health and education, increased marginal income tax rates, voted for the depositor bail out after the Banks collapsed, increased spending on social housing... what policies do they have that are neoliberal?
There is no Party in Ireland that is anything close to neoliberal, thankfully. There is no Party that could even be described as right or centre, except by those on the far left or those that are delusional.
Typo in my part, I meant to say right of centre.You would have to be on the far right or delusional to think that there is no party in Ireland that could be described as centre. Fine Gael describes itself as Progressive Centre. Wikipedia describes it as Centre-Right and gives four external references for this classification.
Socially liberal is entirely consistent with centre-right.Typo in my part, I meant to say right of centre.
Given our welfare and income tax system it is clear that the Parties which have been in government for the last 20 years are centre left.
FG might describe itself as centre right, and they but up their own Wiki page, but they are social liberals who support a generous welfare system and the most progressive income tax system in the EU. On what basis could they be described as centre right?
I think that is right.Again, I think people are getting confused between the party's own values, and the party's approach when in coalition governments that inevitably have some degree of compromise involved.
There is no Party that could even be described as right of centre, except by those on the far left or those that are delusional.
Given out tax system and our very generous welfare system , particularly for those on long term welfare, which is supported by both FF and FG I'd like to know what you think makes either Party right of centre by European or American standards.It reminds me of those US Republicans that call Democrats Marxists. The obvious irony is that to make the above statement you would have to be on the far right or delusional.
The French have a less progressive income tax system and a less generous welfare system. If we are talking economically our governments are significantly to the left of theirs.I think that is right.
The term centre-right is in fact a location* analogy. First I want to split apart social location from economic location and concentrate only on the latter.
We need to have a benchmark location which we call zero just like degrees of longtitude are relative to London. Ideally our choice of centre for calibration purposes should be roughly in the middle of the universe under observation which let us confine to the Western style democracies. As it happens I think coincidentally that London again provides the best benchmark, the average UK administration is dead centre. We need 2 other calibration points and we also need to decide on direction - let us say Right is in the positive direction and vice versa. I will put the average French admin on -10 and the average US admin on +10.
So I would put Ireland on average at about -12. But if FG were in majority power I would think it would go to about +5.
* Historically we have chosen location as the physical analogy for political/social/economic viewpoints, originating in the French Revolution. We could have chosen temperature (hot and cold), touch (soft and hard), height (low and high) or any such physical attribute. Sometimes mixed analogies are used such as the "hard left".
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?