Pique318 I for one certainly don't consider myself to be either deluded or demented and don't need your pity. Think its you who need the pity. A small number of priests did wrong we all agree not the vast majority of them who are doing great work against the odds. Priests were not the only profession involved in wrongdoing, but they seem to be the main target when it comes to publicity.
The Eucharistic Congress in 2012
- Thread starter The_Banker
- Start date
No , as a practising Catholic, I don't need anyone's pity. Yes , I am disgusted at the child abuse scandals and more disgusted at those in charge who themselves were not paedophiles and who covered up .
But to be so against the catholic church because of this is akin to labelling all fathers as child abusers ,indeed all men, as the majority of sex abuse of children is done in the home by those whose duty it is to care for them i.e. their fathers.
As this is patently ridiculous and the majority of men are decent human beings, in the same way the majority of the clergy are decent. The set up, and lets not forget, the society of the time, enabled this type of abuse, not just in Ireland, and hopefully openess and questioning of authority with sexual abuse awareness will not facilitate this again.
People are entitled to believe what they want provided it doesn't harm others and some people, mainly ex Catholics will never forgive and maybe can't.
However, many people believe in the message despite flaws on the part of the messengers and will be interested in the Eucharistic Congress. They will however at times struggle with turning the other cheek as the catholic church seems to get more than its share of vitriol.But then again, nobody said it was easy.One thing I think is that some of the atheists would be quite insulted if catholics told them they pitied them.
But to be so against the catholic church because of this is akin to labelling all fathers as child abusers ,indeed all men, as the majority of sex abuse of children is done in the home by those whose duty it is to care for them i.e. their fathers.
As this is patently ridiculous and the majority of men are decent human beings, in the same way the majority of the clergy are decent. The set up, and lets not forget, the society of the time, enabled this type of abuse, not just in Ireland, and hopefully openess and questioning of authority with sexual abuse awareness will not facilitate this again.
People are entitled to believe what they want provided it doesn't harm others and some people, mainly ex Catholics will never forgive and maybe can't.
However, many people believe in the message despite flaws on the part of the messengers and will be interested in the Eucharistic Congress. They will however at times struggle with turning the other cheek as the catholic church seems to get more than its share of vitriol.But then again, nobody said it was easy.One thing I think is that some of the atheists would be quite insulted if catholics told them they pitied them.
Excellent post
Yes and yes. I understand completely that the few bad apples spoiled the barrel for many people BUT this is not my reason for being against religion. My eyes were opened to the fallacy of the 'church' at about age 16 or so when I realised the futility of believing something 'just because'. There is absolutely no reason to believe in Yahweh, Buudah, Mohammed or any of the other gods. Newsflash: They're imaginary!
Hey I believe in most of the messages that the church comes out with. The thing is, lots of people did so long before the church told them that they should or god would be unhappy. Apart from the commandments that relate to god directly, the rest of them are just 'Guidelines to Being Nice'. To claim that as religous is like trying to patent the act of walking.Brianne said:
Still, like I say, good on you for being happy in your own little belief system. I will not abide the interference of religion on my life however, through the influence the church has on the govt, and would never dare send any children of mine to a church-run school.
Actually, on that note, how many church-goers/believers etc, send their children to a religious school rather than a non-denominational school ?
Do people think that a 5 year old 'believes' in god ? Why not let them decide when they have all the facts instead of brainwashing a kid by memorising chants without even understanding the words, let alone the overall meaning!?
That's not fair on the child imo.
You're welcome (from an atheist)
Isn't that the beauty of the argument, you can't prove there's no God and i can't prove there is one. your belief is what by the way? No matter what theory people lean towards there plenty of holes in every theory - big bang, evolution, Adam & Eve.
5 year olds believe in Santa and the tooth fairy so God has a fair chance even with your kids.
Why not explain the words to them as a good parent? Is it fair to pass on your very obvious disdain towards the church rather than let them make up their own minds?
Except to atheists the Pope is a man in a dress so I don't think tell take any insult from that.
Science has theories that are based on evidence and hypothesised on.
Religion has a book that tells the truth (ohh no it doesn't, ohh yes it does, etc.etc.) with no proof whatsoever, just 'faith'. Blind faith in a story.
I know where my faith lies, and it ain't in the bearded guy in the sky, Adam & Eve, walking on water, immaculate conception etc.etc.
So now you're comparing santa & the tooth fairy to god, finally we're getting somewhere
You can't see that my disdain leads me to actually giving them a chance to understand the (using the word very lightly here) 'reasoning' behind religions (all of them) and then deciding which (if any) to choose at a time when they're old enough to make that decision for themselves.
Not, as is the current status quo, baptising them into Catholicism at a few weeks old, Communion at 5 or 6, 'Confirmation' at 12 and Mass every Sunday. This is not in anyones language comparable to letting them make up their own minds. This is called brainwashing. It's tantamount to child abuse. No baby born is Christain, Jewish, Muslim or whatever. That choice of path can only be made by someone who has matured sufficiently to decide for themselves, based on the EVIDENCE.
Otherwise, we should give the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Orbiting Teapot as much credance as any god.
If there was cast iron proof then you could throw away the bible but there isn't. I don't think that most catholics read the bible and consider it a work of fact i think for me anyway, our origins are too clouded in theory and mystery and the faith or belief that I may (however lightly) hold is a positive thing.
Comparing baptism with child abuse is where your argument has really hit a wall, I mean don't be so dramatic. Parents choose baptism, but like many people when that child grows up and decides that he doesn't believe in God then the baptism counts for nothing so its a non issue. You make decisions for your child all the time whether its how you dress them (should they remain naked until they are mature enough to choose what to wear?), you might encourage them to take up hobbies, learn a language, choose subjects etc etc choosing their religion won't brainwash them, just look at yourself you managed to escape the evil clutches of the church at 16.
The term "science" encompasses a wide spectrum.
There are certain areas where the scientific method and repeatability can be applied and can be trusted as close to 100% as you can reasonably expect.
Other areas are not so clear cut and these can be subject to those oh so human traits of ideology and politics.
Which reminds me, I'd like to propose a "scientific" term for the summer we are having.
Not Global Warming, not Global Cooling, but....... Global Leaking.
“Un peu de science éloigne de Dieu, mais beaucoup y ramène”
[A little science distances you from God, but a lot brings you back] ...
Pascal.
The_Banker
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I hope not. There is no need for the Government to get involved in this Catholic congress.