The challenge of getting "the best" family law barrister- recommendation needed?

[Tom2020]

On the challenge of getting "the best" family law barrister, how does one actually go about that?.. Everyone tells me "get the best one you can find"..
There are no ratings or review system that I know of out there? Its unfortunately not a modern friendly place like Amazon.com or hotels.com, where solicitors & barristers are all rated or held to account.

It also seems to still be a complete legal fee money racket in Ireland2020 and is not as clear cut in terms of asset division and maintenance % of income, as in many other Countries. Going on personal recommendations of other people is also very subjective.

It would be the widely held view on forums that family law process in Ireland falls heavily in the favor of the female, particular if dependent kids involved.
So as a man, I personally have struggled to find many men that have had a "good experience" using solicitors & barristers in an Irish JS process.

If anyone knows of a good one that has represented well on the male respondent side, please send me a direct email asap, as Im still on the Quest of all Quests for the Best Family law solicitor & barrister myself.
I'm ideally looking for a recommendation of a barrister from a male Respondent that has been the full way through the JS process in the Circuit Court in Dublin, with a good articulate barrister that defended your case well, not just the motions of court process.

Thank you.
Tom

 

[Purple]

I have an excellent one now. The first one was more expensive and we just didn't click. It's not all about money.

 

[Tom2020]

Please clarify how you found and selected your barrister? Or if anyone knows out there the best way to go about this. Rather that what seems to very unfortunately be the norm; "I heard from someone.. that BL X was good..."
I'm also wary on taking the solicitor default recommendation at face value, as I know enough now about the set-up that you often get solicitors "sending Barristers work" as they "owe-them-one" from prior jobs... etc etc.. It is a very grey area... Thank you.

 

[MOB]

Of course it is impossible to say for sure, based on the limited information posted, but:

a) Personal recommendation is one of the best ways of selecting an adviser. I don't really understand why you would feel that it is unfortunate that this is the norm. Do you not have friends whose opinions you trust and value? Ask them.

b) A contentious family law case for a father who has recently lost his job=the sort of case that causes a solicitor to "owe them one" - -very hard to see how a barrister would be sent this brief because he\she is owed one. Again, by the way, nothing at all wrong with this. If you have a supplier of services and you send him or her nothing but a stream of troublesome contracts to fulfil, you will find that he or she is not willing to take work from you. That is the same in construction, manufacturing and most areas of human endeavour. Sustainable business relationships mean that you have to ensure that your suppliers make a profit.

Ask your friends for recommendations. Ideally ask a solicitor friend who does not do family law (or at least will not be offended that they are not being hired)

 

[LS400]

Personal recommendation is one of the best ways of selecting an adviser. I don't really understand why you would feel that it is unfortunate that this is the norm. Do you not have friends whose opinions you trust and value

We`re not good at confiding in people. I would have close friends, but if I were to confide, Id probably only tell them a one sided version on events, and that`s with the best will in the world, and that goes for the brilliant representation Id received. I wouldn't like to have felt short changed and admitted to it.

Its also a very personal matter, and I wouldn't want to wash my undies for all to see and make judgments on, no matter how close friends we are. Guys are just more reserved, where as Gals, well, are not, in general.

So for a bloke to be asking this question, going through your pals list for recommendation, is not really an option.

My sister in Law has gone through this process, berating the legal rep she received, but, I know shes hard work at the best of times, so they are probably wonderfully skilled at their job, but would not be getting the deserved endorsement.

I asked the very same question a while ago, but not in as good a way as the OP has outlined and framed this question. I would think that who ever he ends up with, having done his due diligence on them, will be a 5 star rating, pity well never know.

 

[deanpark]

I'm a bloke who has applied for Legal Aid for custody and domestic violence proceedings and was assigned via their offices a very good private family law solicitor and through them a very good barrister and have been successful in all hearings. The legals don't seem to have the inclination to spend any decent lot of time prior to hearings with me to buoy me up/ prepare etc. but on the day in front of the judge they perform. Not sure how that helps the OP but it's how I navigated the world of family lawyers as I didn't have a notion of who to approach.

My brother is a solicitor but I wouldn't dream of / bother asking his opinion as I wouldn't think he would be the best person to talk to about it.

 

[Purple]

We`re not good at confiding in people. I would have close friends, but if I were to confide, Id probably only tell them a one sided version on events, and that`s with the best will in the world, and that goes for the brilliant representation Id received. I wouldn't like to have felt short changed and admitted to it.

Its also a very personal matter, and I wouldn't want to wash my undies for all to see and make judgments on, no matter how close friends we are. Guys are just more reserved, where as Gals, well, are not, in general.

So for a bloke to be asking this question, going through your pals list for recommendation, is not really an option.

My sister in Law has gone through this process, berating the legal rep she received, but, I know shes hard work at the best of times, so they are probably wonderfully skilled at their job, but would not be getting the deserved endorsement.

I asked the very same question a while ago, but not in as good a way as the OP has outlined and framed this question. I would think that who ever he ends up with, having done his due diligence on them, will be a 5 star rating, pity well never know.

I've had no problem confiding in friends and asking for advice, especially those who have been through similar situations.
Maybe I'm odd (okay, I know I'm odd) but I've never had a problem telling male friends my problems, or listening to theirs or telling them how much I value their friendship or discussing feeling down or any of that stuff. I'm not into that stoic alpha male nonsense People like that are just insecure.

 

[Northie]

The legals don't seem to have the inclination to spend any decent lot of time prior to hearings with me to buoy me up/ prepare etc. but on the day in front of the judge they perform.

This would be my experience as well, and in truth its what you are paying for i.e. the work in court. I had a solicitor recommended to me by a friend, the barrister was organised by him and I didn't have any say, having said that I had no issue with the barrister's performance in court. I did discover an acquittance worked in a family law solicitor's practice and I asked them to check re my solicitor, the positive comment back confirmed my decision.

Looking across the table at my ex's legal team I wasn't massively impressed at their performance. However, what I quickly discovered was that my legal team's performance and that of my ex's was very much dependent on mine and my ex's behaviour. By that I mean not just in relation to our own preparedness for court (in relation to being on top of our records, clear mentally about timeline and ability to answer questions on them, ability to produce copies of correspondence to counter claims made by the other side etc) but also how we had behaved during the breakdown of our marriage and how honest we were about those behaviours - both good and bad. Another major difference was I concentrated on my behaviour and how I saw things progressing while my ex insisted on dragging through the past and trying to assign blame. I don't envy the job the legal team had to make of what was given to them to argue.

I've mentioned this in responses before in this forum, while the breakdown of a marriage is incredibly emotional, hurtful etc, once it gets to court and the legal system all of that has to be put aside and you have to approach it in a rational, pragmatic manner. For solicitors and barristers this is business and they could be on either side of the table. My first time in the family court it was a shock to see the legal eagles chatting and joking, you half expect them to be as adversarial as you and the ex but that's not what will get you through what I certainly found to be an incredibly stressful experience.

 

[LS400]

Maybe I'm odd (okay, I know I'm odd)

I think that`s getting close to personal abuse, IMHO, and maybe should be reported for your own good.

People like that are just insecure.

Id say anyone going through the experience what Northie has very well explained would find it difficult, not to become somewhat insecure.

 

[Purple]

I think that`s getting close to personal abuse, IMHO, and maybe should be reported for your own good.

Indeed, and self abuse is also a sin (as the Christian Brothers used to tell me).

Id say anyone going through the experience what Northie has very well explained would find it difficult, not to become somewhat insecure.

I left an abusive relationship. I walked out of the house with nothing other than my clothes and 8 years later that's still all I have of the possessions that were in the house I bought and am still paying for. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm a better person and a much better father since I left. I have a good well paid job and I manage people and have the responsibility of making major business decisions regularly. I'm saying that not to show off but to show that anyone can be a victim of abuse. It's not a sign of failure or weakness. Without the support of family, but particularly of friends, I don't know if I'd have made it through it.
I find it deeply sexist and very damaging to men that all of the talk about coercive control focuses solely on women as victims. I don't know the statistics, or even if anyone has bothered to gather them, but I'd say there is a strong link between marriage and long term relationship breakdown and male suicide. In that context I believe that it is very important for men to talk about what they have experienced, to each other and publically. It's not the fault of women that the discussion around all of this is so one sided; women talk about it more and they are certainly more likely to be the victim of severe physical abuse but that leaves male victims in a very isolated place.

 

[Purple]

@Northie, great post.

 

[LS400]

but I'd say there is a strong link between marriage and long term relationship breakdown and male suicide.

My thumbs up is an acknowledgement of that statement, as it brought home that very situation some years ago. Very well said.

 

[Robert135]

I have an excellent one now. The first one was more expensive and we just didn't click. It's not all about money.

Hi Tom,
Unfortunately I seem to have got in a mess picking my solicitor for my divorce, I'm very stressed, 3 1/2 years and still going over the same information I gave them at the start, could you kindly inform me what legal support you got, as I'm getting anywhere. Kindest Regards Robert

 

[Purple]

Hi Tom,
Unfortunately I seem to have got in a mess picking my solicitor for my divorce, I'm very stressed, 3 1/2 years and still going over the same information I gave them at the start, could you kindly inform me what legal support you got, as I'm getting anywhere. Kindest Regards Robert

I got a proverbial kick up the backside from my solicitor. That's really what I got.

 

[Edenbridge146]

I have an excellent one now. The first one was more expensive and we just didn't click. It's not all about money.

Hi Purple - could you send me the name of the barrister you used - just out of the divorce court and my barrister was working 4 cases at the same time - he was useless! Never once asked me what i wanted - so looking for a recommendation

 

[Purple]

Hi Purple - could you send me the name of the barrister you used - just out of the divorce court and my barrister was working 4 cases at the same time - he was useless! Never once asked me what i wanted - so looking for a recommendation

I was referring to my solicitor above, not my barrister. She recommended the barrister. I think it's important that your solicitor and barrister have a good working relationship.

 

[SquirrelChaser]

There is no "best" family law solicitor or barrister. Unless you mean "best at marketing themselves". Especially for divorce which requires a court order.

For every divorce/separation, each party will need to swear an affidavit of welfare and affidavit of means. These will effectively determine who gets what share of the family assets and any maintenance. As a rule of thumb:

• The family home will be sold and the proceeds split 50-50 after the eldest child moves out.
• Other assets will be split 50-50.
• One parent (usually the mother) will have primary care of the children while both will have joint custody
• Maintenance for the child(ren) of the marriage will likely be between 15% and 35% of the non-primary carer's net income: probably around the 25% mark in general
• Spousal maintenance isn't so much of a thing in the modern age, as mothers tend to work outside the home now.
• The pension adjustment order will be set at 0.00001%

Yes, the above will vary depending on the relative wealth & income of the parties. But that's the ballpark you're playing in when you get a divorce or separation. Depending on how much the estranged spouses hate each other, it can take between a few weeks and a decade to get that position formalised, but that's the position where you're going to end up.

The biggest impact getting the "best" lawyers on your team will have will be to increase your legal fees. That could easily be tens of thousands of euro for each side for a middle class couple with not massive assets.

Unless one or both parties are a complete d1ck (and usually if it's one, then it's both has been my observation over the years) lawyers are not only surplus to requirement but an impediment to the process. A solicitor or barrister will earn far more from a contentious separation or divorce than one where the parties rock up and just need an agreement which was reached through a (completely free) mediation process formalised. Many of the "best" (and I've worked with some of those) are experts at taking an amicable separation and sh1t stirring it into a lucrative annuity for themselves for a few years. And then the "best" ultimately settle literally on the steps of the court or not long ahead of the hearing, and usually for pretty much what was on the table the day their client first walked in their door except for the accrued legal fees.

The entire justice system is filled with that kind of perverse incentive. Part of the issue is that it couldn't cope will full hearings of even 10% of proceedings, so they get adjourned and adjourned and adjourned.

The only potential value of lawyers is to lubricate the negotiation process when the parties can't stand the sight, sound, nor smell of one another because of the weight of years of perceived/actual maltreatment by the other party (which is in fairness often the exact reason they're splitting up). But if the process is ongoing for years before settling on the steps anyway, you're not really getting any value there either.

There's no magic to a DIY divorce, it's basically a process of fill-in-the-blanks which we all managed to do in primary school. The courts will be very accommodating to lay litigants in family law- they take their constitutional obligations seriously in that regard.

Rant over.

 

[T McGibney]

@SquirrelChaser, that's an excellent post. You should really delete the profanities from it in case they cause it to be deleted in line with Posting Guidelines.