The Bitcoin threads could be interesting in the future

Firefly said:

Fruitfly? Now, now...Wolcate

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My profuse apologies - slip of a key..

Firefly said:

I posted an observation about Bitcoin. You made 3 references to viewpoints I did not make. When I asked you to back them up, you accuse me of being disingenuous. It looks the other way round to me..

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I still maintain that you're being disingenuous Firefly - given that it's unlikely that you've forgotten previous discussions we've had on the subject. I'll bite. The first one you questioned was this ->

"The difference is that you don't seem to think that this can evolve. "

That's an opinion based on previous discussions - as in my opinion. You want a source for that? Hold on? Let me go ask myself? Yeah - that's my opinion

Next one....

"like Firefly you're not open to the consideration that usability can be improved upon "

Statement made on the basis of the opinion expressed above - and followed on from it sequentially.

Next one....

"So - others have gone with digital currencies as @Firefly proposes "

Post 246.

Firefly said:

A crypto currency pegged to a number of large, global currencies would make more sense.

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There are projects taking this approach that you suggested.

Firefly said:

I posted an observation about Bitcoin. You made 3 references to viewpoints I did not make.

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You have nothing to argue about - it's a contrivance. If you want to disagree with my opinion, that's another thing entirely. That doesn't require asking someone to cite sources.

Firefly said:

So that's a no then? Make assertions about people without backing it up....how do you honestly expect people to take you seriously then??

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Like I told the other guy, I'm under no obligations to do jack - that's first and foremost. I may or may not choose - as I decide - I won't be dictated to.
Secondly, I don't yearn to be 'taken seriously' by a small group of crypto-deniers who - from the outset in 2017 have trashed bitcoin and from that point, fail to develop the ability to look at it objectively. What I will do is correct the lies that have been disseminated here over the course of three years so neutrals can make up their own minds.

Firefly said:

You are the one asserting 3 times in the past 24 hours things I have not said. The onus is on you I'm afraid.

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1. Your wrong. 2. I'm not beholden to anyone. I'm pretty sure I was being sent on a wild goose chase on this - but I've gone with it. Persist with this sort of nonsense and I'll respond in the same way as the other guy.

WolfeTone said:

I don't have great trust in bitcoin maintaining its purchasing power, if I did I would be more inclined to go all in.
I accept it is not without its flaws, that it is does not yet have mainstream appeal or is not user friendly in the sense of how we use other technologies.
But what I do accept is its concept, and its prospect to develop mainstream appeal, and for user friendly applications to be developed for it.
I could be alone in thinking that way, but clearly I am not.
So while there is a great deal of speculation (limiting the € amount anyone should put into it) that speculation is not a blind-throw-a-dart-over-your-shoulder-see-where-it-lands levels of speculation that, with respect, the BOHA camp may be inclined to proclaim it to be. There may be elements of that, but enough to induce a several hundred billion market over 12yrs? In my opinion, no.

The speculation is based on the technology fulfilling its promise, or even part of, the mechanics of it, and crucially for me, the time being invested in it by reasonable and intelligent people.
None of that amounts to a fire-proof endorsement of bitcoin, but they are strong indicators of its intrinsic value.

It is mentioned elsewhere that something else, something better than bitcoin will emerge and that will be the end of bitcoin.
Indeed it might, or maybe it will just make what is there now better?

Did the colour TV replace the B&W TV, or did it just make TV better?

For now, the BOHA argument is dead. It has zero value. It is worthless.

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Now, now Wolfie, bad form to gloat when you are on top. Did I gloat when bitcoin fell from 20,000 to 3,000? I felt very confident shorting bitcoin in early 2018 and that paid off. I'll have to admit that I would be nervous shorting it now, but nothing at all has altered my conviction that it is BOHA.

Davy Research via Brendan Burgess said:

Software is eating the world and reshaping the architecture of the monetary system – one inclusive of digital assets.

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Bitcoin is eating the world and its very, very hungry.

Duke of Marmalade said:

Did I gloat when bitcoin fell from 20,000 to 3,000

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My goodness Duke, Im getting worried about you now. Surely you are not claiming a €3,000 price tag per bitcoin as qualifying evidence of BOHA?

tecate said:

I still maintain that you're being disingenuous Firefly - given that it's unlikely that you've forgotten previous discussions we've had on the subject.

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I haven't. Time and time again you accuse me of being disingenuous when I ask that you back up baseless assertions you have made about me. Why do you continue to do so?

tecate said:

"like Firefly you're not open to the consideration that usability can be improved upon "
Statement made on the basis of the opinion expressed above - and followed on from it sequentially.

You have nothing to argue about - it's a contrivance. If you want to disagree with my opinion, that's another thing entirely. That doesn't require asking someone to cite sources.

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You make that statement about me as a fact not as an opinion

tecate said:

Like I told the other guy, I'm under no obligations to do jack - that's first and foremost. I may or may not choose - as I decide - I won't be dictated to.

..I'm not beholden to anyone. I'm pretty sure I was being sent on a wild goose chase on this - but I've gone with it. Persist with this sort of nonsense and I'll respond in the same way as the other guy.

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So you can make baseless assertions about someone and when they ask you to back it up you get all defensive.

If you think I am dictating, I am not, simply that you should have the decency to provide burden of proof

Firefly said:

I haven't. Time and time again you accuse me of being disingenuous when I ask that you back up baseless assertions you have made about me. Why do you continue to do so?

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Because that's my belief - and as much as people want to erase it here - that ain't happening. I'm entitled to it - and this last post of yours does nothing to change that - quite the opposite.
And as a side note - 'time and time again'? Dramatic much? When have you and I discussed bitcoin here in 2020? The extent people here will go to...

Firefly said:

You make that statement about me as a fact not as an opinion

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I make that statement as an opinion. Can you read? Aside from the fact that it reads that way, I'm telling you for a second time.

Firefly said:

If you think I am dictating, I am not, simply that you should have the decency to provide burden of proof

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Firstly, don't you even begin to talk about decency! Secondly - given that you didn't get the point the first time - I'll restate it for you. I'm not obliged to do jack - and certainly not at the behest of the embittered and disingenuous - just so that we're clear.

Oh dear! And I thought from earlier engagements that @tecate and @Firefly were a beautiful love affair.

Duke of Marmalade said:

Oh dear! And I thought from earlier engagements that @tecate and @Firefly were a beautiful love affair.

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There's only one 'beautiful love affair' to be had here, your Dukeness.

tecate said:

I'm not obliged to do jack

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Imagine this happening in the real world. You're at a table with a group of people. Someone provides your opinion for you 3 times which are unfounded. You challenge them to back it up but they reply that it's just their opinion and they don't have to do Jack.

tecate said:

To your point, every system does have positives and negatives - and it's for that reason that a range of crypto's / digital assets will serve a range of needs as we move forward.

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This is a thread on Bitcoin, if other cryptocurrencies can serve needs better than BTC, does this not challenge your stance that BTC adoption will only increase?

Firefly said:

Imagine this happening in the real world.

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Indeed I have, Firefly. My conclusion is that you wouldn't come up with that contrivance in the real world - in which case there would be no need for you to receive such a response.

Dublinbay12 said:

if other cryptocurrencies can serve needs better than BTC, does this not challenge your stance that BTC adoption will only increase?

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I'm saying that there are a range of needs/circumstances and when you break down those needs/circumstances, it's not a 'one size fits all' scenario. As you said yourself, every system has its positives and negatives. There are times when the use of one will be more appropriate than the use of another. It's within that context that I believe bitcoin keeps progressing.
There are a gazillion crypto's - which is great for innovation. That said, the vast majority of them will fail. To my mind, many of them already have. But we'll be left with category winners.

@Leo has been telling us for three years that there are superior cryptos to bitcoin out there but when the question is put to him as to which crypto(s), no answer.

tecate said:

Indeed I have, Firefly. My conclusion is that you wouldn't come up with that contrivance in the real world - in which case there would be no need for you to receive such a response.

I'm saying that there are a range of needs/circumstances and when you break down those needs/circumstances, it's not a 'one size fits all' scenario. As you said yourself, every system has its positives and negatives. There are times when the use of one will be more appropriate than the use of another. It's within that context that I believe bitcoin keeps progressing.
There are a gazillion crypto's - which is great for innovation. That said, the vast majority of them will fail. To my mind, many of them already have. But we'll be left with category winners.

@Leo has been telling us for three years that there are superior cryptos to bitcoin out there but when the question is put to him as to which crypto(s), no answer.

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So given BTC is not a 'one size fits all' do you think this will have an impact on the increase of adoption or not?

Note there are a gazillion tokens, there are only a handful of currencies.

Dublinbay12 said:

So given BTC is not a 'one size fits all' do you think this will have an impact on the increase of adoption or not?

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There is no crypto that is 'one size fits all' in line with your comment that 'all systems have their positives and negatives'. That rule applies to all cryptos - not just to bitcoin.
The attributes of a crypto will feed into its use case and its currently well positioned to rival gold. Beyond that, its decentralised and so there are other conditions/circumstances where it has value as a settlement layer. For large amounts, its currently fine for transactional use. For micro-transactions we all acknowledge that it has some drawbacks (usability, volatility, etc.). If those current drawbacks give way in the future, then it can play a role in that respect also.
You can correct me if I'm wrong but I sense that you feel that the value proposition of bitcoin is or will be covered by a CBDC or the likes? You're working on such a project in some capacity or other if I recall correctly. Then you know that in 2020, the level of activity on that front has gone through the roof. It seems quite clear to me that we'll all be using digital sovereign currencies - starting with back-end implementations and later retail implementations. Some corporate digital money will get approved also. It didn't come off for facebook (albeit they;re not done yet) but we will have some approved at some stage. I don't see these things as threats to bitcoin - I actively encourage them. They'll help bitcoin.

tecate said:

Indeed I have, Firefly. My conclusion is that you wouldn't come up with that contrivance in the real world - in which case there would be no need for you to receive such a response.

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I made a post about Bitcoin that in no way was directed at you
You/your side-kick welcomed be back to the thread
You make 3 baseless assertions on my behalf
I challenge you to back them up
You then accuse me of being disingenuous and of contrivance

Regarding the 3 baseless assertions ....would backing them up really be that difficult, unless of course they are indeed baseless?...

@Firefly
What I stated was not baseless. On the first two, I expressed an opinion. You may have many rights in life but depriving me of my opinion isn't one of them. On the last one, I've clearly demonstrated what you stated. If not, explain yourself.

And by the way - I maintain the whole time that this is a contrivance. You're trying to support the other guy in his baseless views and came up with this nonsense. If someone expressed an opinion that you don't believe, you can politely state 'i disagree' (or a more detailed version of same). Not this nonsense.

tecate said:

What I stated was not baseless. On the first two, I expressed an opinion. You may have many rights in life but depriving me of my opinion isn't one of them. On the last one, I've clearly demonstrated what you stated. If not, explain yourself.

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You said:

tecate said:

So - others have gone with digital currencies as @Firefly proposes.

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What have I proposed?

Firefly said:

You said:
What have I proposed?

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Yes, I did say and I linked to the relevant post. Are you disputing your own post now?

tecate said:

And again with the double standards. WHERE is the answer to the question I just put to you Leo?

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As I already said, back up your claim and tell me how I can send a bitcoin transaction over satellite as I asked almost a week ago and I'll answer any question of your choosing that you have asked since then.

Why are you so upset about my refusing to answer questions you have asked since I first asked mine?

Leo said:

As I already said, back up your claim and tell me how I can send a bitcoin transaction over satellite as I asked almost a week ago and I'll answer any question of your choosing that you have asked since then.

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You seem to have comprehension difficulties. Unlike the numerous questions that have been put to you, I've answered your question. You don't like the answer - your problem, deal with it.

From this point onwards, any demand for any question coming from you will not be met with an answer. Your social capital with me has long since evapourated.

Leo said:

Why are you so upset about my refusing to answer questions you have asked since I first asked mine?

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I'm not in any way upset, Leo. Notwithstanding that, I see attempts to destroy free and open discussion for what they are.

tecate said:

Yes, I did say and I linked to the relevant post. Are you disputing your own post now?

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Accepted, thank you.

tecate said:

What I stated was not baseless. On the first two, I expressed an opinion.

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Whether it is based on opinion or fact, when asserting a viewpoint for someone else you should have the decency to back it up.

tecate said:

You may have many rights in life but depriving me of my opinion isn't one of them.

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I am trying to deprive you of having an opinion? And you accuse me of contrivance and nonsense?

tecate said:

You're trying to support the other guy in his baseless views and came up with this nonsense.

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I can genuinely promise you that this was not my intention at all.