The €uro. A Dead Duck Walking?

And the debt acquired by these countries as Euro's will be paid how? And by whom?

I would imagine if the debts are owed in Euros they would be paid back in Euros. If I borrow $100, I must repay $100 dollars plus interest. It doesn't matter if my own currency is Euros, punts or anything else.
 
I would imagine if the debts are owed in Euros they would be paid back in Euros. If I borrow $100, I must repay $100 dollars plus interest. It doesn't matter if my own currency is Euros, punts or anything else.

If they could pay back in euros then there would not be a sovereign debt crisis in the first place!
 
The Euro, it seems to me to be primarily a political project aimed, in large part, at ensuring peace in Europe by wrapping economies so tightly together that war is inconceivable. I don't think the need for this has gone away. We sometimes lose sight of the need for overarching peace in a long period of political stability. The scale of Italian debt is eyewatering, no matter what currency they use. However, the freedom to devalue certainly benefited Italy in the past.
 
I agree. Living beyond your means. Seems to be endemic..

Yeh, so to ask the question again. If some countries leave, or are cut loose from the euro (on account that they cannot repay their debts) who are to pay those debts, or how are the debts to be repaid?
Or do you advocate a default, which is what will occur if a country leaves or is cut loose.
 
Yeh, so to ask the question again. If some countries leave, or are cut loose from the euro (on account that they cannot repay their debts) who are to pay those debts, or how are the debts to be repaid?
Or do you advocate a default, which is what will occur if a country leaves or is cut loose.

I would take a guess that it will be the remaining countries who would have to pick up the bill and therefore the likes of you and me. Something to look forward to I guess
 
Oh ye with short memories !!!!!

Do you want a return to Bertie holding the purse strings .

Lets get down on our knees and thank the Gods that we are on our feet
 
Oh ye with short memories !!!!!

Do you want a return to Bertie holding the purse strings .

Lets get down on our knees and thank the Gods that we are on our feet

I agree. We've obviously been through a difficult decade, but I think on the whole, life has been much much better for us within the EU.
Thanks to our insatiable desire to live beyond our means during good times and bad our children will have enormous hurdles to climb.
I actually think we will look back at this time as being a golden time for Ireland.
 
Yeh, so to ask the question again. If some countries leave, or are cut loose from the euro (on account that they cannot repay their debts) who are to pay those debts, or how are the debts to be repaid?
Or do you advocate a default, which is what will occur if a country leaves or is cut loose.

If a country leaves the eurozone and then refuses to pay it's debt, it is clearly in default. A country in default will find it difficult to fund it's public spending as no external source of funding will be available other than a bail out led by the IMF (aka Argentina). Such bailouts come with strings attached. Another result will be a large devaluation of it's new currency making its citizens poorer relative to those in the Euro zone. Yes, the devaluation will make it more competitive and attract tourists but the locals will definitely be worse off.
 
I would take a guess that it will be the remaining countries who would have to pick up the bill and therefore the likes of you and me. Something to look forward to I guess

I don't think it would be that simple. There was probably a chance that if Greece or ourselves defaulted that the euro could have absorbed the reputational damage and hobbled on, but even at that I would doubt it. If Italy were to default, or allowed to default then the euro's reputation would be gone.
Think about it, who would risk lending their capital to debt-ridden eurozone countries knowing that they too might default in the near future? Interest rates would spike dramatically on all countries with high debt to gdp ratios forcing those countries to default also.

For the euro to survive (I dont think it will) default is simply not an option.
 
If a country leaves the eurozone and then refuses to pay it's debt, it is clearly in default. A country in default will find it difficult to fund it's public spending as no external source of funding will be available other than a bail out led by the IMF (aka Argentina). Such bailouts come with strings attached. Another result will be a large devaluation of it's new currency making its citizens poorer relative to those in the Euro zone. Yes, the devaluation will make it more competitive and attract tourists but the locals will definitely be worse off.

I agree. And if a country defaults, say Greece, what do you think investors will do when it comes to buying bonds of Italy or Spain or Ireland? Probably run a million miles away.
Default in the eurozone is not a realistic option. Italy defaulting is definitely a non-runner.
 
I think on the whole, life has been much much better for us within the EU.

I agree, I certainly would not advocate leaving the EU.

Thanks to our insatiable desire to live beyond our means during good times and bad our children will have enormous hurdles to climb.
I actually think we will look back at this time as being a golden time for Ireland.

Sometimes it is hard to equate your views. One the one hand you despair our insatiable appetite to keep living beyond our means while simultaneously think we are living through a golden time!
 
Sometimes it is hard to equate your views. One the one hand you despair our insatiable appetite to keep living beyond our means while simultaneously think we are living through a golden time!
By golden time, I mean we've never had it so good and this is because as we've put it on the never never...
 
By golden time, I mean we've never had it so good and this is because as we've put it on the never never...

Ok, fair enough, my misinterpretation of your previous comment.
However, it only adds to the notion that the Euro is not suited to our economy (or we are not suited to Euro).
I don't think we would have ever been capable of borrowing to the extent we have, both in public finances and private credit, had we remained with the punt?
 
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To be fair, Italy was a basket case when it had it's own currency and will be a basket case again with it's own currency. The Italian Lira is not Sterling or the Swiss Franc. Unfortunately, it is easier for people to blame the Euro for every economic problem in places like Italy than facing up to the reality. And I say that as someone spent a significant number of years working for an Italian bank and who has a love for the Country and people but God, they are stuck in the 1950's when it comes to economic and social reform and the impact of globalisation.

I have to say i take exception to describing italy as a basket case, It is still an industrial heavyweight producing cars , advanced machinery for factories and many other things. It is the third largest economy in europe and eighth in the world, its hardly a basket case. There are many countries in the world that are basket cases but none produce cars or advanced industrial goods. Yes Italy has gone downhill since it adopted the euro, therefore the euro cannot be dismissed as a significant factor in holding back italy
 
I have to say i take exception to describing italy as a basket case, It is still an industrial heavyweight producing cars , advanced machinery for factories and many other things. It is the third largest economy in europe and eighth in the world, its hardly a basket case. There are many countries in the world that are basket cases but none produce cars or advanced industrial goods. Yes Italy has gone downhill since it adopted the euro, therefore the euro cannot be dismissed as a significant factor in holding back italy

Sorry you take exception but Italy is a basket case. I don’t care how many cars it produces. How many governments have been in place since world war 2? This industrial powerhouse that you describe applies to half the country in the North. The South of Italy is basically a different country. It has one of the largest debt piles in the industrialized world and has been getting worse in recent years in a period of so called austerity. The debt they do sell is mainly bought by domestic investors. Italian banks are the largest holders of Italian debt by far. Even yesterday’s bond auction. I am willing to bet that Italian banks ploughed into the auction to make sure it sold. Italians have stored billions and billions outside the country which is only being tackled now like we tackled it 30 years ago. Corruption is still ripe and unemployment in the young is still being driven by nepotism. Most jobs in Italy depend on who you know and what school you went to. Again, us 30 years ago.

Still the food is great and I do love the people. But it is still a basket case country albeit with loads of potential. But then so do countries like Greece and Argentina.
 
I don't think we would have ever been capable of borrowing to the extent we have, both in public finances and private credit, had we remained with the punt?

Didn't stop us in the late 1970s until the mid 1980s when we borrowed like crazy. Didn't turn out too well then either.
 
Didn't stop us in the late 1970s until the mid 1980s when we borrowed like crazy. Didn't turn out too well then either.

True, but it was all our responsibility. Now we are dependent on other countries remaining fiscally prudent. Failure by another country to be fiscally prudent threatens the value and even the existence of the euro, just as Ireland threatened it, Greece threatened it, Portugal and now Italy.
 
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