Paul O Mahoney
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But getting a discount buying something isn't reducing my taxable income is it?Well, it's a refund or deferral of money they have paid in rent, meaning the landlord is not obliged to pay tax on it. If a shop gives you a discount on a product, do you feel obliged to call up revenue seeking to pay income tax on that discount?
That doesn't really make sense, if you're buying something the formation of a contract requires consideration, it's only formed when payment is handed over. But that's covered under the Sale & Supply of Goods legislation, not really anything to do with taxation.
Exactly! It's not income so you don't pay tax on it. It's exactly the same as a discount on rent, it isn't income so the tenant doesn't pay tax on that. A landlord is entitled to reduce rent for any reason they choose. doing so does not create a taxable event.But getting a discount buying something isn't reducing my taxable income is it?
"For any reason they chose" I find that hard to believe Leo.Exactly! It's not income so you don't pay tax on it. It's exactly the same as a discount on rent, it isn't income so the tenant doesn't pay tax on that. A landlord is entitled to reduce rent for any reason they choose. doing so does not create a taxable event.
I'd disagree.Giving a discount so the tenants allow viewings, is essentially paying the tenants to allow the viewings. If there were no viewings there's no discount.
The discount is dependent on viewings being allowed and they happen.
If I buy something at a 50% I must carry out a simple contract with the seller, ie buy the product.
Eh what do you think happens when anyone sells a house ? You have viewings, strangers traipsing through it.A number of years ago, I was a tenant in a house that went up for sale and I agreed to viewings. It was awfully uncomfortable, having strangers trampling through your home (yes, rented properties can also be homes) was just not nice.
Let the tenants move out, tidy the place and then put it on the market. Its nothing more than showing a bit of respect to the people who have been paying your mortgage.
I assume you mean if an owner/occupier was selling a house? There is a big difference here - an owner occupier will have several hundred thousand lodged in to their account at the end of the sale - a tenant will have to go hunting for somewhere new to live in the current impossible market. The owner/occupier will also be paying the estate agent, the tenant will not have that relationship with the agent. He who pays the piper, etc.Eh what do you think happens when anyone sells a house ? You have viewings, strangers traipsing through it.
I am in a similar situation having decided to sell my investment property in Dublin, a 2 bed apartment. I am issuing formal 6 months notice to the tenants tomorrow having already informally advised them that I am selling. They allowed an estate agent in last week to perform a valuation. The agent is suggesting that i wait until the end of the notice period or until they move out before I sell. But I feel that they could be there for the full 6 months and I am concerned about waiting 6 months and perhaps the market crashing ? Also having to pay the mortgage myself for a few months and possibly the next management fee if that sale is not completed by next April. Any thoughts anyone ?OP why do you not wait until your tenants have gone? The house will be in order and you will not have to worry about tenants being in the way?
You could always have a friendly chat with your tenants and offer them a bonus if they move out early. While its unlikely that they will find somewhere new to live quickly in this current market, you never know unless you ask.I am in a similar situation having decided to sell my investment property in Dublin, a 2 bed apartment. I am issuing formal 6 months notice to the tenants tomorrow having already informally advised them that I am selling. They allowed an estate agent in last week to perform a valuation. The agent is suggesting that i wait until the end of the notice period or until they move out before I sell. But I feel that they could be there for the full 6 months and I am concerned about waiting 6 months and perhaps the market crashing ? Also having to pay the mortgage myself for a few months and possibly the next management fee if that sale is not completed by next April. Any thoughts anyone ?
Rented properties are homes, the tenants homes.A number of years ago, I was a tenant in a house that went up for sale and I agreed to viewings. It was awfully uncomfortable, having strangers trampling through your home (yes, rented properties can also be homes) was just not nice.
Let the tenants move out, tidy the place and then put it on the market. Its nothing more than showing a bit of respect to the people who have been paying your mortgage.
When we bought our house the viewings had the sitting tenants present watching TV or having their dinner. It was a bit weird and I'm sure it put some purchasers off.I sold an apartment a few years back, waited for tenant to move out before putting it up for sale. An almost identical apartment was put up for sale about 3 months earlier, with tenants in place. Tenants will not stage a property so it looks well - nor should you expect them to, its a pain showing you're own property having to clean up, vacate the place at short notice. I remember looking at their photos online, with gym equipment in the dining area, looked really cramped.
Nonetheless it is absolutely true, there is nothing in the tenancy legislation to suggest otherwise."For any reason they chose" I find that hard to believe Leo.
The reason is immaterial. It's still a reduction in rental income and both parties are perfectly entitled to treat it as such.But you still fail the recognise that no discount would be given in this case if the tenants didn't allow access to the property. The reduction in rent is payment for a service, not a reduction for early payment of rent or the tenants falling on hard times it's a contract.
Make sure you completed the forms that are the Rtb site and get the forms signed infront of solicitor or commissioner of oaths. Make sure you give an extra few days in move out date to allow for delay in postage. You will need to send a copy to Rtb after the move out date. I sent it in error sooner than expected when I issued the tenant notice but they replied that it will not affect the outcome. I paid swift post so I have proof it was delivered. I know you can hand deliver but wanted to have proof that someone else delivered it.I am in a similar situation having decided to sell my investment property in Dublin, a 2 bed apartment. I am issuing formal 6 months notice to the tenants tomorrow having already informally advised them that I am selling. They allowed an estate agent in last week to perform a valuation. The agent is suggesting that i wait until the end of the notice period or until they move out before I sell. But I feel that they could be there for the full 6 months and I am concerned about waiting 6 months and perhaps the market crashing ? Also having to pay the mortgage myself for a few months and possibly the next management fee if that sale is not completed by next April. Any thoughts anyone ?
That is complete overkill. Just sign the letter yourself, take a scan of the signed copies and addressed envelope, and send it by registered post.Make sure you completed the forms that are the Rtb site and get the forms signed infront of solicitor or commissioner of oaths.
I don't think this is entirely correct.You don't pay tax on the rent as stated in the contract, you pay tax on rent received. Whatever is stated in the contract doesn't come into it.
You can enter it as a discount with no expectation to chase it. The rent payable on a period with a change in tenancy will always be some combination of the rent as stated in the first lease, a period without rental income during the changeover and then the rent as per the new lease.Tax is payable on the rent due, rather than on the rent received. If the rent received is less than the rent due, the difference can be expensed as a bad debt, subject to the usual rules which govern deduction of bad debts.
For the typical mom'n'pop landlord with say €10k of rental profits do you think Revenue will care?In other words Revenue are entitled to ask what efforts the landlord made to recover the amounts due, and if they are unhappy to disallow the claim for bad debt as a deduction.
No I don't think Revenue would care, but that is a different question.For the typical mom'n'pop landlord with say €10k of rental profits do you think Revenue will care?
That might be too casual, once an audit is started I think they would be fairly thorough.Under audit my working assumption would be that once gross rental income matches what is recorded on bank statements they won't care.