Tenant row over private CCTV camera removal

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vincentgav

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Hi All,

I have a tenant (A) who is engaged in a spat with another tenant (B). He's teamed up with another friendly neighbour (C) and both are sending in arbitrary complaints, daily. The complaints are rubbish about people coming and going late, too many visitors, etc. Nothing substantial.

A installed his own CCTV camera overlooking the communal door to the apartment building, overlooking the entrance. I got an email from B, showing footage of C, coming and going in the building. So A is recording C in the common areas, without permission, sending the footage to B and B is sending it to me.

A and C conspiring against B, over general issues.

My issue is that A stuck up a camera on the external wall refused point blank to remove it. I requested they take it down, they refused, even though it's accounted for in their tenancy. Private CCTV is not allowed. I sent them a warning, told them if they didn't remove it, then my CCTV contractor would do so. The notice period passed, they still refused so my guy took the camera down. The camera was returned to the tenant, advising them in writing of their lease, which specifically prohibits CCTV.

The tenant is now claiming that his equipment was stolen and he's gone to the PRTB. Again, he was given the camera back. He also claims that the lease doesn't allow me to take it down, but the lease doesn't cover every single eventuality and consequence.

I think I'm entitled to remove the camera because:

1. It's a violation of their tenancy agreement, they refused to remedy this, were given notice, failed to act.
2. They're sharing images of their neighbour and using it to harass them.

Who is right?
 
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Thanks for the steer, but it’s more in relation to removing the camera I’m concerned with.
 
Whole thing sounds dreadful; I'd consider giving them all notice to quit.

More importantly, do you have a document trail to support all your actions?
 
vincentgav said:
The tenant is now claiming that his equipment was stolen and he's gone to the PRTB. Again, he was given the camera back. He also claims that the lease doesn't allow me to take it down, but the lease doesn't cover every single eventuality and consequence.
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In light of the PRTB report might not be a bad idea to get a written confirmation from the CCTV contractor where they state that they returned the camera to the tenant. Date it for the return date and let their invoice for the work done reflect that.
 
Oh gawd. Where to start. I'd evict the lot of them. But seeing as that's impossible what to do. So let's go with facts.

A's camera. Seems you have a written tenancy agreement that this is not allowed. So A has breached that. And you've written to them that the camers is not allowed, good. And you got a professional to remove it, good. Plus a second written warning. Good.

I've no idea if you're allowed take down the camera. But your actions seem very reasonable to me. But we only need to know if they are reasonable to the RTB. The fact A is lying shouldn't help his case. I agree with Sue Ellen's advice. The contractor's written confirmation should be enough for the RTB.

One caveat, in my landlords view, the RTB are a law onto themselves. Let us know how you get on. But one think I can tell you is this, a lying tenant A needs to be get gone asap.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Perfectly simple; property owner serves notice that they need property for their own use.
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As a landlord who has done this it is not 'perfectly simple'. It is achievable, with a lot of effort. In my case I was selling, but it was extremely stressful and time consuming, including RTB hearings. In the end I kept one property and am waiting for the 2 years.
 
Might be too late now, but B submitting a complaint to the DPC in relation to A's illegal recording might help.
 
The camera was mounted on the external wall, so I believe I was entitled to have it removed after asking and then warning them. I can’t be caught out over data protection rubbish that I didn’t want or ask for.

The act of passing around footage I think is harassment, so I think I’ll send him a termination based on anti social behaviour, harassing the neighbour.

Also, I believe that giving him the camera back rules out any nonsense claims about theft.

The common area is outside of his demised premises, the suggestion we can’t remove anything from the external walls sounds to me like a double negative that solicitors dream up.

We don’t have to have a policy in place for every single thing, this is well established I’m sure.

For example; if there’s junk left in the carpark, I’m not obliged to leave it there.
 
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vincentgav said:
The camera was mounted on the external wall, so I believe I was entitled to have it removed after asking and then warning them. I can’t be caught out over data protection rubbish that I didn’t want or ask for.

The act of passing around footage I think is harassment, so I think I’ll send him a termination based on anti social behaviour, harassing the neighbour.

I also think it could be that time is of the essence here. He’s complaining but he’s totally wrong, so go ahead and lodge a termination for bullying the neighbour, get ahead of him.
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Oh now you wouldn't want to be going about evicting someone unless you have exceedingly valid grounds. And based on the tenant lying, he's not the type that will go quietly.

So how to approach it, ask the RTB by email if the grounds of anti social behaviour you state happened is a valid grounds for termination. And I'd say good luck with that.
 
Which is why I'd go for 'own use'; yes your tenants could overhold, but they don't have grounds to appeal notice.
 
Bronte said:
Oh now you wouldn't want to be going about evicting someone unless you have exceedingly valid grounds.
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I do. I have footage from his cameras sent by tenant C, they’re trying to get the other tenant thrown out, they’re picking on B, who has already complained they’re being filmed, notes under the door, etc.

So A is sending C footage of B against B’s will. This is harassment.
Bronte said:
And based on the tenant lying, he's not the type that will go quietly.

So how to approach it, ask the RTB by email if the grounds of anti social behaviour you state happened is a valid grounds for termination. And I'd say good luck with that.
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Thanks!
 
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vincentgav said:
I can’t be caught out over data protection rubbish that I didn’t want or ask for.

The act of passing around footage I think is harassment, so I think I’ll send him a termination based on anti social behaviour, harassing the neighbour.
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Correct, you can't be, but the person who put the camera up, recorded other people and then shared the footage can be. DPC's guidance on private CCTV is quite clear that this is not permitted.

vincentgav said:
Also, I believe that giving him the camera back rules out any nonsense claims about theft.
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Correct.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Which is why I'd go for 'own use'; yes your tenants could overhold, but they don't have grounds to appeal notice.
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and if afterwards, you rent it to another tenant instead of using it yourself, would that not lead to you being open to being sued for false premises?
 
vincentgav said:
The camera was mounted on the external wall, so I believe I was entitled to have it removed after asking and then warning them. I can’t be caught out over data protection rubbish that I didn’t want or ask for.

The act of passing around footage I think is harassment, so I think I’ll send him a termination based on anti social behaviour, harassing the neighbour.

Also, I believe that giving him the camera back rules out any nonsense claims about theft.

The common area is outside of his demised premises, the suggestion we can’t remove anything from the external walls sounds to me like a double negative that solicitors dream up.

We don’t have to have a policy in place for every single thing, this is well established I’m sure.

For example; if there’s junk left in the carpark, I’m not obliged to leave it there.
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It is possible for a third party to make a complaint to the RTB over a tenants anti social behaviour. So perhaps the person being spied on could drop them a line?
 
vincentgav said:
Wouldn’t want to poke the DPC bear. Rather not get them involved.
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Nothing for you to fear in this instance and a finding from them for illegal recording, or even putting tenant A on notice of a formal complaint could work in your favour.
 
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