Tenant Over Holding - Can't afford to keep renting/Can't Sell!!

[Sconeandjam]

Hi Can I ask the following specific questions:

1. Any posters have any other info on actual overholding situations and how long it took to get to the RTB adjudication hearing ?

2. If a bank takes over a property from the former owner, what process does the bank need to go to remove a tenant thats in situ at time of foreclosure ?

Rent wont be payable to the bank as the lease is either renewed with the bank, or non existent ?

Ultimately is this also a good outcome for a tenant to buy more time in situ ?

You can look at passed and current orders on rtb website..https://www.rtb.ie/search-results/enforcement-of-orders/eyJyZXN1bHRfcGFnZSI6InNlYXJjaC1yZXN1bHRzXC9lbmZvcmNlbWVudC1vZi1vcmRlcnMiLCJrZXl3b3JkcyI6Ik92ZXJob2xkaW5nIiwieWVhciI6IjIwMjIifQ
type in overholding.

Ask for interest only and explain you are evicting the tenant and then selling the house straight away. They may work with you.

 

[lff12]

Except that would be illegal!

(and a landlord would be a bigger fool to leave written evidence of such a request).

Correct, the tenant cannot sign away their statutory rights. Any increase over the standard RTB stipulated allowance is illegal, even if necessary for you to make ends meet. You'll have to keep going with the eviction order through to the end. As of now its still your right to do so.

 

[lff12]

That is so wrong. Lawyer say not worth going after the tenant. It has to be changed that even if the tenant is on benefit/social welfare they should have funds deducted at source.
We were told the same. So easy for tenants to walk away with out paying or causing damage.

I would take the judgment out. Might cost you a little but it would make it clear to the tenant, and whoever else they are talking to or taking "advice" from, that you mean business.

 

[lff12]

The tenant did not show up for the District court hearing and left me on the hook for the expenses . It is a win as far as I am concerned. I could take a judgment out but my lawyer said theres no point .

I would have done so. While these are quite small figures in the greater scheme of things its basically the equivalent of giving the sherrif the right to seize the car of the overholding tenant for example. Facing the loss of this might get the message through to such an overholding tenant.
The real issue right now is that political actors are actually telling tenants facing eviction to overhold.

 

[Queen St Bribie]

Thanks for continued replies, as an update, there is no update, we have passed the one year anniversary of lodging with PRTB and have still received absolutely no correspondence other than noting it was received and verbal advice every time we call noting "your application has progressed in the queue" we are now at 15 months.

The only thing we can do and I seek feedback on this,

Is it harming our case if we continue to remind the tenant he is overholding and note his agreement to move out last August was not honored ( this would still have been months after the lease termination date). ?

cheers

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Is it harming our case if we continue to remind the tenant he is overholding and note his agreement to move out last August was not honored ( this would still have been months after the lease termination date). ?

Not at all, it supports your case.

But in another thread I see you are seeking legal advice so probably better to hold off until you have a strategy worked out with a solicitor.

 

[AlbacoreA]

I feel I can't advise as the goalposts have shifted and all even further towards the over-holding tenant. So any older tactics don't apply anymore. I would advise talking someone with recent experience in evictions. As they will know what currently works.

 

[Right Winger]

Something's gone wrong there. There are over holding cases are coming up for hearing after about 4 - 5 months at the moment. You need to escalate. Email, call, send a registered letter, etc etc.

Did you follow up and escalate as I suggested earlier? There's no way it's taking anything like 18 months to get a hearing in RTB. More like 3 - 4 months and falling. You can chase it up yourself. Don't get fobbed off. The timescale you're experiencing is a massive outlier. Send a registered letter. Pop in to RTB HQ if you're nearby. I can only repeat: your experience is not the norm, something's gone wrong and you need to find out what's happening. At this point there's not much a solicitor can do that you can't do yourself.

 

[mikeyny]

When you eventually do get to the adjudication hearing it will be worthwhile to have a solicitor on board .
In my case the hearing was in April 2021 and it was held virtually. I attended as did my solicitor and property manager .
I live in the US and joined in the teams meeting , the solicitor and property manager were in a meeting room with their assistants on the other side of the table .
In your first post you say the tenant is well aware of the RTB delays and the law on overholding , you should have the same preparedness.

 

[Michelle_B]

Thanks for continued replies, as an update, there is no update, we have passed the one year anniversary of lodging with PRTB and have still received absolutely no correspondence other than noting it was received and verbal advice every time we call noting "your application has progressed in the queue" we are now at 15 months.

The only thing we can do and I seek feedback on this,

Is it harming our case if we continue to remind the tenant he is overholding and note his agreement to move out last August was not honored ( this would still have been months after the lease termination date). ?

cheers

I served notice in July 2022 which expired in Feb 2023, winter eviction ban to April 1st 2023. The tenants are still in my premises. I lodged the dispute mid April 2023, 1st mediation with RTB is next week, July 17th.

 

[Queen St Bribie]

Finally an UPDATE and not a good one.

Taking the advice offered on the phone at face value by an RTB agent, we finally got through to an RTB agent who advised that when we finally get our hearing, still no date known, that the tenant would gain the support of the RTB. It will be claimed our notice which was "served" by registered post was not valid. This notice was issued prior to the recent requirement to also CC the RTB.

the advice we were unofficially given over the phone indicated, that the RTB will support the tenants case that he never actually got the notice and the fact we issued it by registered post does not mean he actually received the notice.

This has taken nearly 2 years for the RTB to still not actually tell us this formally, this is not consistent with the act as it is documented in and is very concerning.

In the mean while due to the rapid increase in rates, which we had foreseen, hence we began the sales and termination process nearly 3 years ago, have started to catch up with us and we are in arrears now battling the bank on the other side.

 

[DannyBoyD]

Engage a solicitor familiar with the regulations and correctly serve eviction notice.

Likely the clock will start again, but you are getting nowhere at present.

 

[Greenbook]

If you have records of what you served and details of how/when you served it etc. first thing I'd do is show those to a solicitor and get his or her legal sign off as to whether what you did is correct of not. What the RTB told you may not be right. I've had experience of incorrect information given by them in good faith and, in one instance, which took about a year to sort out, deliberate lying by RTB staff.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

RTB are a complete disaster of an organisation in my experience. Rules are complicated and designed to trip landlords up.

A solicitor could cost you a few thousand euros but could save you even more if they get a non-paying tenant out sooner.

 

[Dermot]

RTB are a disaster who cannot accept responsibility for their own incompetence. I recently served a time sensitive document on a tenant and on the RTB on the same date. I got an acknowledgement on the correct date from RTB about a week later. I then received a second letter from RTB almost a month later from the time I gave them a copy of the notice that I served on them. This 2nd letter from RTB had a totally different date for the time that they received the time sensitive notice.
I complained about this to rtb and I just got a letter back that it was just a mistake on their behalf without any further clarification and their ignorant attitude was further compounded by just signing of the letter RTB. No one taking responsibility. A totally arrogant an incompetent organisation. This is far from the first time I have experienced their incompetence. RTB is beyond reform at this stage.

 

[Dermot]

Warning. Nobody should accept over the phone advice from RTB. as it will probably be incorrect unless it is a very simple query. A competent person is unlikely to be answering routine phone calls or has moved to another position or job.

 

[Sarenco]

the advice we were unofficially given over the phone indicated, that the RTB will support the tenants case that he never actually got the notice and the fact we issued it by registered post does not mean he actually received the notice.

Do you have a certificate of posting or transaction receipt from An Post? In other words, can you prove that the notice was actually sent to your tenant?

Also, are you confident that the notice otherwise strictly complied with the legislative requirements in full? It is very easy to get these wrong.

 

[Queen St Bribie]

Hi Sarenco, yes we have absolute proof it was posted. The RTB have indicated the tenat will successfully argue he never received it however.

He will acknowledge he received the follow up email with a scanned copy of it, but he is denying he ever received the hard copy and this lie is good enough for the RTB to say as "it was emailed and not posted" it was incorrectly served.

 

[Queen St Bribie]

I have landed on a potential outcome where we drop this particular argument, as we have no control or visibilty over how long it will go and in the interim we are losing out on valid rent increases..

Instead ( as this has taken 3 years to this point ) im contemplating he is issued a new lease, with each allowable rent increase included.

Can we only apply one rent increase or the cumulative total from each year since the last ?

The lease would immediately be followed by notice once lease is signed, with notice served in person with what ever undeniable proof of serving is required.

At least this way we are getting the rent increases in the interim, or if he cant afford them ball is in hos court not to accept the lease. As with any lease there are some slightly onerous conditions in it, which of course would be enforced strictly, along with reasonable and regular (Monthly ? ) inspections.

He has gotten too comfortable with the comfort blanket of the RTB and we have much left him alone due to concern of affecting our position in the eyes of the RTB.

We have engaged a solicitor, im waiting advice on some scenarios, including the above.

 

[Sarenco]

we have absolute proof it was posted. The RTB have indicated the tenat will successfully argue he never received it however.

I really don’t see how that could be possible.

If you have a certificate of posting, that should be the end of the matter. The RTB’s own website recommends sending notices by certified post.

I’m also very surprised that an individual in the RTB is prejudging the issue before a hearing. I would be inclined to raise this with a more senior person.