Taxi driver robs €2,500 from customers - fined €750!

[Brendan Burgess]

Taxi driver secretly topped up fares by €9 in ‘colossal’ scam

Regulator recalled 206 taxi meters, ‘many’ of which were involved, says judge

www.irishtimes.com

Robert Griffin (66) of Maplewood Park, Springfield in Tallaght, was fined €750 after he pleaded guilty to 280 counts of over-charging contrary to the Taxi Regulation Act.

He was not currently working “and does not know if he will ever go back” to taxi work, his solicitor told the court.


Surely people should go to jail for fraud. And particularly this type of fraud which most people could not detect and which makes the public very wary of taxi drivers?

Brendan

 

[odyssey06]

It's much easier to put out press releases on how seriously you take fraud than to actually do something about it.
Rinse and repeat for this government's entire policy on everything.

 

[Purple]

Would a doctor or solicitor go to prison for €2500 worth of tax fraud?
Would a teacher who did €2500 worth of grinds and didn't pay tax on them go to prison?

I very much doubt it. This is the same crime.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

This is the same crime.

Good point.

Interesting comparison. No, they would not. Nor would anyone go to jail for small scale social welfare fraud.

I was going to say that it's because the taxi driver was defrauding specific individuals as distinct from the population in general.

But solicitors don't go to jail for defrauding clients. They get a reprimand from the Law Society.

Brendan

 

[odyssey06]

€750 is a paltry fine.
Fine should be at least ten times higher, it should be ten times the sum defrauded.
If fine not paid, jail time.

 

[odyssey06]

Interesting comparison. No, they would not. Nor would anyone go to jail for small scale social welfare fraud.
I was going to say that it's because the taxi driver was defrauding specific individuals as distinct from the population in general.
But solicitors don't go to jail for defrauding clients. They get a reprimand from the Law Society.

Also, restitution can be made to the Revenue after the fact in those scenarios.
Not possible in this scenario as the people who were victims of the crime are random\cannot be tracked down - which means the punishment must be approached differently.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

€750 is a paltry fine.

Absolutely. He is up €1,700 after paying the fine.

Crime pays.

 

[Peanuts20]

This wasn't a tax fraud as some people have mentioned on here. This was overcharging and the fines that can be levied on him are maxed at €5k under taxi regulations. Whether or not the NTA can also fine him on top of the court fines, I'm not sure but even then, how will they get the money if he is not working. Reality is it's unlikely he will be licensed to drive a taxi in the future.

Not condoning it by the way but I'd much sooner see the prisons full of drunk drivers, speeders and other people on the roads who endanger lives as opposed to be crooked taxi driver

 

[Purple]

Also, restitution can be made to the Revenue after the fact in those scenarios.
Not possible in this scenario as the people who were victims of the crime are random\cannot be tracked down - which means the punishment must be approached differently.

He's lost his job. That certainly wouldn't be the case with the doctor, solicitor or teacher above. All three are paid far more than a taxi driver, are far safer in work, work shorter hours, have far better job security and generally easier jobs.

When they steal from their neighbours by not paying their taxes they don't have to pay restitution to those neighbours and if you think that you and I are not paying higher taxes because other people aren't paying theirs then you really need to think again.

 

[odyssey06]

He's lost his job. That certainly wouldn't be the case with the doctor, solicitor or teacher above. All three are paid far more than a taxi driver, are far safer in work, work shorter hours, have far better job security and generally easier jobs.
When they steal from their neighbours by not paying their taxes they don't have to pay restitution to those neighbours and if you think that you and I are not paying higher taxes because other people aren't paying theirs then you really need to think again.

I don't see how any of this job comparison is relevant, or accurate.
Is being a doctor an easier job than being a taxi driver? I don't know, and I don't know how you can make that claim either.

Revenue would have looked for more than €750 I think, but if you have figures to the contrary, please provide.
If they don't pay their taxes and are caught, then they are liable to repay the sums to the Revenue - with penalties.
No individual taxpayer was defrauded, therefore restitution can be made to the collective Revenue.

Is it possible for this tax driver to repay the citizens he defrauded? No.
So I think whether it is possible to make restitution or not to the victims matters.

The fine was totally inadequate.
The fine should have been higher.
If not paid, go to jail.
If we don't have enough jail capacity, build more.

 

[Sunny]

I don't see how any of this is relevant, or even accurate. Is being a doctor an easier job than being a taxi driver? I don't know, and I don't know how you can make that claim either.

Revenue would have looked for more than €750 I think, but if you have figures to the contrary, please provide.

The fine was totally inadequate.
The fine should have been higher.
If not paid, go to jail.
If we don't have enough jail capacity, build more.

And how long would you have jailed him for? What happens when a poor person commits a crime and gets a fine but can't afford to pay. He gets jailed?? So you think it is fair that a rich person commits a similar crime but is able to pay the fine so doesn't get jailed?? Is that justice? So we will have our prisons full of a certain cohort of society while the better among us just do the crime and then buy their way out of trouble.....So basically what happens today......

 

[odyssey06]

And how long would you have jailed him for? What happens when a poor person commits a crime and gets a fine but can't afford to pay. He gets jailed?? So you think it is fair that a rich person commits a similar crime but is able to pay the fine so doesn't get jailed?? Is that justice? So we will have our prisons full of a certain cohort of society while the better among us just do the crime and then buy their way out of trouble.....So basically what happens today......

We also must also avoid a scenario where there are no consequences to 'poor' people for committing offences.
There must be consequences either financial or in time or (open to suggestion).
If you do the crime and can't pay the fine, you do the time.

 

[michaelm]

While the fine could have been higher it's not that important. He was fined, named and shamed and hopefully mortified. Pitiful really. A custodial sentence would serve little purpose and cost the State money unnecessarily. Maybe a sentence of 280 hours community service, meals-on-wheels or some such, would have been appropriate.

 

[odyssey06]

While the fine could have been higher it's not that important. He was fined, named and shamed and hopefully mortified. Pitiful really. A custodial sentence would serve little purpose and cost the State money unnecessarily. Maybe a sentence of 280 hours community service, meals-on-wheels or some such, would have been appropriate.

I would disagree about the amount of the fine. It's not just about punishing this one individual, it is also about sending a message to other individuals who might try the same scam.
The fine should have at least been equal to the amount of the fraud - and in my opinion much higher.

But I think your idea of community service hours (if fine could not be paid) is a good approach.

 

[Purple]

I don't see how any of this job comparison is relevant, or accurate.
Is being a doctor an easier job than being a taxi driver? I don't know, and I don't know how you can make that claim either.

The average GP works less than 30 hours a week while sitting behind a desk. I don't think a taxi driver would make a living on those hours and generally works antisocial hours and is far more likely to get attacked.

Revenue would have looked for more than €750 I think, but if you have figures to the contrary, please provide.
If they don't pay their taxes and are caught, then they are liable to repay the sums to the Revenue - with penalties.
No individual taxpayer was defrauded, therefore restitution can be made to the collective Revenue.

I pay higher taxes because other people don't pay their taxes. Their actions take money directly out of my pocket. I don't get anything back when Revenue fine the few they catch.

Is it possible for this tax driver to repay the citizens he defrauded? No.
So I think whether it is possible to make restitution or not to the victims matters.

Exactly, same as above.

The fine was totally inadequate.
The fine should have been higher.
If not paid, go to jail.
If we don't have enough jail capacity, build more.

That would cause the victims of his crime more money.
I've no problem with community service etc but this is the same crime as tax evasion and insurance fraud.

 

[odyssey06]

The average GP works less than 30 hours a week while sitting behind a desk. I don't think a taxi driver would make a living on those hours and generally works antisocial hours and is far more likely to get attacked.

I pay higher taxes because other people don't pay their taxes. Their actions take money directly out of my pocket. I don't get anything back when Revenue fine the few they catch.

That would cause the victims of his crime more money.
I've no problem with community service etc but this is the same crime as tax evasion and insurance fraud.

Do doctors not work anti social hours???
It's a meaningless comparison in any event.

In the short term there is a cost to putting anyone in prison. Regardless of the crime.
But the theory is that less people would commit tax evasion or insurance fraud if they went to jail because they couldn't pay the fine when caught?
So ultimately more people would pay their taxes...
If there is no real sanction or punishment, more people are going to chance their arm at all of them.
Or maybe you are unconcerned about paying higher taxes because of tax evasion, or higher insurance premiums?

Again, in theory if you feel you are paying more tax because of tax evasion, then if Revenue recover some of this tax there must be less need to levy more taxes on you.

I've no problem with people going to jail for insurance fraud or tax evasion, it must be an option on the table.
Also, I strongly suspect that the cohort of people not paying their taxes are also some of the cohort involved in insurance fraud, and sure, some of them or their accomplices might even be moonlighting as taxi drivers with dodgy meters.

 

[Purple]

Do doctors not work anti social hours???
It's a meaningless comparison in any event.

GP's don't but a small proportion of hospital doctors and some locum doctors do. Most work a short week and no antisocial hours.

In the short term there is a cost to putting anyone in prison. Regardless of the crime.
But the theory is that less people woukd commit tax evasion or insurance fraud if they went to jail because they couldn't pay the fine when caught?
So ultimately more people would pay their taxes...
If there is no real sanction or punishment, more people are going to chance their arm at all of them.
Or maybe you are unconerned about paying higher taxes because of tax evasion, or higher insurance premiums?

Yea, the Americans tried that but it didn't work. They have much higher crime rates and 2.3 million of them are incarcerated. That's right 2.3 million of them (2.2million in prisons and jails and 100k everywhere else). That's 7 in every 1000. We have 0.94 per 1000.

Obviously if you feel you are paying more tax because of tax evasion, then if Revenue recover some of this tax there must be less need to levy more taxes on you.

But no refund. I don't get the money that is stolen from me returned. The criminals pay a fine which the State keeps. Same as the taxi driver.

I've no problem with people going to jail for insurance fraud or tax evasion, it must be an option on the table.

I'd be happier to see career criminals going to prison, and while we have limited resources it is a case of one or the other.

Also, I strongly suspect that the cohort of people not paying their taxes are also some of the cohort involved in insurance fraud, and sure, some of them or their accomplices might even be moonlighting as taxi drivers with dodgy meters.

Or they could be doctors (cash business) or teachers doing grinds (cash business) or solicitors or others who think they are on a higher moral plane then taxi drivers.

 

[Deiseblue]

Perhaps the greatest salutary lesson in terms of curbing tax evasion is to administer a short sharp shock by jailing all those individuals who appear on the Revenue published tax defaulters list .
The reason it won’t happen is of course the fact that generally speaking the individuals on the list come from the most prosperous strata of our society.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

So Deise

Would you jail everyone who has fraudulently claimed welfare payments as well?

Brendan

 

[Deiseblue]

Degrees of scale Brendan , for minor social welfare infractions - No , the punishment should fit the crime.
But certainly for fraud at a level commensurate to the amounts defrauded by those on the tax defaulters list the answer is a definite Yes.
The difference being that a quick google search shows that a number of people have been jailed for social welfare fraud- has anybody from the recent defaulter’s list ?