Errmm you just claimed this:
"the research from Scotland and elsewhere is clear that MUP has significant public health benefits."
Errmm you just claimed this:I didn't refer to any specific research
You made strong claims with no sources. You then quoted some random Scottish document which I had never mentioned and incorrectly claimed it was what I was referring to.Errmm you just claimed this:
"the research from Scotland and elsewhere is clear that MUP has significant public health benefits."
It wasn't creative they just copied the Scots who now say that MUP has had no effect on alcohol abuse. The gross stupidity of the policy and the horrendous timing meant that this policy pushed Ireland to the top of the EU price league. It was such a huge jump in pricing that it was like rocket fuel underneath the inflation rate, that alone should have kiboshed MUP altogetherMUP was a creative way by government to raise alcohol prices and stop the loss leader practices. Adding another €1 via excise would of have less of an effect.
Mup does not go to the retailer.
The issue was that alcohol was being used as a loss leader and being sold extremely cheaply to get you into a store and buy other products.
This in turn was leading to health issues and higher levels of alcohol dependence.
The mup won't have much affect on those already with dependency, but certainly the latest research from Scotland is that it has been working by seeing less people becoming dependent on alcohol and that is certainly a good thing.
The retailers now discount other products to get you in.
Preventing below cost selling would not work as at absolute cost price, cheap alcohol was still very cheap.
And it's a misconception that alcohol here is the most expensive. If anything, before mup it was probably one of the cheapest in Europe if you use a more accurate measurement of affordability.
In simple terms, the number of minutes you need to work for a person on average after tax salary to buy alcohol was, and still is, one of the lowest in Europe.
It doesn't take much effort for someone to pick up cans of beer at €2 or a bottle of wine from €8 up. Alcohol isn't a necessity but a luxury item to most. Minimum wage hits €12.70 next year.MUP is completely ridiculous. A bonus for retailers in that they get to pocket a higher price for the lower end products. A bonus for wealthier people in that price competition in the slightly higher bracket is heightened. And the real loser is the person on the lower wage who wants to enjoy a bottle of wine or a beer with their family or friends.
The latest data show it has been successful and has had the biggest effect in the most deprived groups.It wasn't creative they just copied the Scots who now say that MUP has had no effect on alcohol abuse.
The gross stupidity of the policy and the horrendous timing meant that this policy pushed Ireland to the top of the EU price league. It was such a huge jump in pricing that it was like rocket fuel underneath the inflation rate, that alone should have kiboshed MUP altogether
Beyond the headline, the article makes no further mention of the alleged effects on food so I dug around and found the original paper for this. The reduction in food spending was only 1% and the reduction in food volume was just 0.8%. A completely misleading headline.Minimum alcohol price ‘causes poorest to cut back on food’ in Scotland | Alcohol | The Guardian
Some problem drinkers also reducing heating to afford rising alcohol costs, according to Public Health Scotlandamp.theguardian.com Minimum alcohol price ‘causes poorest to cut back on food’ in Scotland
You can get own brand loaf of bread for €1 thereabouts.It doesn't take much effort for someone to pick up cans of beer at €2 or a bottle of wine from €8 up. Alcohol isn't a necessity but a luxury item to most. Minimum wage hits €12.70 next year.
Cups of coffee on the other hand has shot up in price in the last few years.
Loaves of bread not far off €3 in places. Maybe it's these prices we need to keep more of an eye on than the cost of a can.
How has that worked for those with drug addiction issues? Making it 'less accessible' is just inconveniencing the responsible drinker for no gain. If someone is addicted they will pay the price.Minimum alcohol price ‘causes poorest to cut back on food’ in Scotland
If people are prioritising alcohol over feeding themselves then they have an alcohol addiction issue.
That headline is a strong argument in favour of making alcohol less accessible.
Measures that impact affordability are not intended to address people with dependencies, rather they are a disincentive to others developing a dependency in the first place. The more interesting aspect will be to assess how this affects the numbers of people with alcohol dependencies over time.How has that worked for those with drug addiction issues?
True, but I was responding to the specific point about those already with an addiction and how they respond to MUP.Measures that impact affordability are not intended to address people with dependencies, rather they are a disincentive to others developing a dependency in the first place. The more interesting aspect will be to assess how this affects the numbers of people with alcohol dependencies over time.
I can't see you buying cheap wine. It just doesn't fit my picture of you.Also, alcohol consumption is on a downward trajectory here, imo it doesn't need an interventionist measure like MUP which impacts huge numbers of moderate drinkers and is anti-competitive.
I don't know but I suspect that making drugs cheaper and more available doesn't help them either.How has that worked for those with drug addiction issues?
That's true but as @Leo pointed out that's not the point.Making it 'less accessible' is just inconveniencing the responsible drinker for no gain. If someone is addicted they will pay the price.
Hah... Tesco had a €5 robust \ rustic Shiraz that was perfect as a cooking wine.I can't see you buying cheap wine. It just doesn't fit my picture of you.
Ok I misread you , I thought you meant current addicts - my replies consider both current and future scenarios.I don't know but I suspect that making drugs cheaper and more available doesn't help them either.
That's true but as @Leo pointed out that's not the point.
You're dead to me nowHah... Tesco had a €5 robust \ rustic Shiraz that was perfect as a cooking wine.
I picked up the last bottles of it for €2 in the sell off of the cheapest lines pre-MUP, but that was a once off.
Before the government lobbed their extra taxes on wine pre-MUP (blatantly cos it was an import) Tesco had a €5 French rose from Gascony that was as good as one twice the price from Provence, and a ruby port for €8.50 from Symingtons.
I'd also pickup cheap brandy \ whiskey for making a hot toddy type drink.
Horses for coursesYou're dead to me now
I'm with you there. "Cooking Wine" and "Drinking Wine" go in different places in our house.Horses for courses
Twould be a waste to put the vintage stuff into a stew, or a single malt into the hot whiskey.
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