JoeRoberts
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Like a dog chasing a car trailer the government don't know what to do when they get there after their great big men talk of the past few months. . Now they trying to start to restore some diplomacy.
Taoiseach is anti-semitic
- Thread starter cremeegg
- Start date
Virtue signalling after all the anti-Israeli/pro-Hamas guff from him over the past 12 months.Tánaiste announces endorsement of Global Guidelines for Countering Antisemitism and the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism
This decision has been taken in the context of Ireland’s longstanding commitment to supporting freedom of religion or belief, equality and non-discriminationwww.gov.ie
Was the intention to do this publicised at all?
What is antisemitism?
With the IHRA working definition of antisemitism, the IHRA built international consensus around an answer to the question, what does antisemitism mean?holocaustremembrance.com
Oxford English Dictionary
The OED is the definitive record of the English language, featuring 600,000 words, 3 million quotations, and over 1,000 years of English.www.oed.com
If you can dig up a single quote of him saying anything pro-Hamas I'll be astonished.
It’s the one sided condemnations.
JoeRoberts
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Can understand Harris as he has little experience but surprised Martin has not been more diplomatic. But chasing popular votes of course. Good Prime Time last night on how we have lost that one thing we had been good at over the decades, keeping good relations with everyone. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.
Extract from MM statement to the Dail in October 23. One sided condemnations??
Let me reiterate the Government’s unequivocal condemnation of the attack by Hamas on Israel. The actions that we witnessed were savage and brutal. The indiscriminate killing of civilians going about their daily life. The targeting of young party-goers at a music festival. The seizing of hostages, including children and elderly people.
These are reprehensible actions. I have been absolutely clear that all hostages, Israeli and international, must be released unconditionally. I have underlined that there is no justification – none - for such terror.
In a letter to Foreign Minister Cohen on 8 October, I expressed Ireland’s deepest condolences to the Israeli people. I have spoken with the Israeli Ambassador here in Ireland and also with the Chair of the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland.
There is an immense sense of shock and trauma amongst the Jewish and Israeli communities here in Ireland. The solidarity and support of the Irish people is both needed and valued at this time.
I have also underlined that, in line with international law, Israel has the right to defend itself against attack. However, this must be done within the parameters of international humanitarian law.
It is vital that we distinguish between Hamas and the Palestinian people, including Palestinian civilians in Gaza. This is very well understood here in Ireland but I am concerned at the commentary in some international media coverage and on social media that blurs this distinction.
I also very much welcome the clear message from President Biden following his call with President Abbas, where he reiterated that Hamas does not stand for the Palestinian people’s right to dignity and self-determination.
JoeRoberts
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What does anyone gain by supporting the ICJ case. Isreal will ignore anything they say anyway. Would be better off working quietly in the background. That avenue now lost. Some day we may need Isreals help for an Irish citizen over in those parts.
I'm pretty sure that they roundly condemned the events of October 7th 2023 at that time.
Since then what we've mainly seen is Israel bombing Gaza to bits.
What is it, 90% of the population, who've lost their homes and been forced to move many times?
Almost every school, university and hospital has been destroyed.
There are innumerable videos of Israeli soldiers delighting in the destruction they are wreaking on civilian infrastructure, putting on women's underwear in houses as they loot them etc etc.
Israel is letting in only a fraction of the aid people need.
Israeli Government ministers making openly genocidal statements all the while.
Not to mention that a sizeable number of the Israelis who lost their lives on October 7th were killed by Israeli Apache helicopters as they implemented the Hannibal Directive and the fact that the mass rape and babies burned in ovens allegations have no evidence to support them.
What we have seen is evidence of rape and torture of prisoners by the Israelis, including the killing of doctors, the deliberate murder of a University professor for a tweet and the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields.
And you complain of one sided condemnations.
What is there to balance all that, condemnation-wise?
Hamas started the current conflict.
Hamas use their people as human shields.
Hamas could have ended the conflict any time they wanted by releasing the hostages and surrendering.
I haven’t heard Michael Martin mention any of that. I have heard him talk about deaths in Gaza as if every death was that of a civilian. I haven’t heard him condemn Hamas for using their own people as human shields.
And finally Hamas do speak for the people of Gaza. They are the elected government of Gaza. They’ve murdered all the opposition but they still enjoy the support of a far larger proportion of their population than their counterparts do in Israel.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government are barbaric fundamentalist lunatics who have no regard for the civilian population of Gaza but at least the Israelis have regard for their own civilian population. Michael Martin hasn’t mentioned that either.
Gaza has been described as a concentration camp or a prison for decades going back well into the last century.
Often, approvingly by Israelis and sometimes disapprovingly such as by David Cameron in 2010 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-10778110)
No one nor nothing can enter or leave Gaza except with the permission of Israel.
That's a siege as and sieges are an Act of War.
Implying that this all began on 7/10/2023 is simply repeating zionist misinformation.
Hamas tried to end this phase of the conflict many times, even as far back as 2023.
It's Israel who've repeatedly blocked attempts to negotiate a permanent ceasefire and hostage release by repeatedly
moving the goalposts and assassinating the people they were supposedly negotiating with (such as Ismail Haniyeh in Iran). That's a time honoured Israeli tactic btw. Assassinate the moderates and then bemoan the fact that you've no one to talk to.
See also this https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-g...als-urges-smotrich-to-help-him-stop-this-one/
...
Gaza is well less than half the size of Ireland's smallest county, Louth, yet it has since 2023 been subjecting to bombing greater than the combined total that London, Hamburg and Dresden received in WW2. The human shields accusation is zionist propaganda to excuse their genocidal intentions, similar to the accusations that Hamas had command and control installations under Al Shifa Hospital.
What is actually the case however is that Israeli soldiers use Palestinian prisoners as Human Shields as a way of dealing with booby trapped buildings and the like.
Hamas were elected back in 2005. So by that yardstick Bertie Ahern speaks for us.
That's a common western trope when talking about non-white people. I believe that the top US General in Vietnam said something similar when confronted about the heavy civilian death toll in that war. Those people aren't like us, they don't mourn their dead as deeply as we do.
Saying something is something doesn’t make it so.
Except through Egypt until the current land invasion by Israel.
Using the phrase Zionist in a pejorative way like that could be seen as bigoted. Anyone from anywhere who supports Israel’s right to exist is a Zionist.
Was that before or after they started this round of the conflict by murdering 1400 people?
I’m sure they have. The current Israeli government is barbaric and propped up by extremist religious fundamentalists who think they have a mandate from heaven to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. Just like Hamas think they have a similar mandate from their god to do the same think to the people of Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-g...als-urges-smotrich-to-help-him-stop-this-one/
Again with the pejorative use of the word Zionist. Do you think that Israel has the right to exist at all? If so you are a Zionist. If not you are an advocate for genocide.
It is beyond doubt that Hamas use their own people as a human shield. Only the wilfully ignorant think otherwise.
Really?
Is Bertie still running things and still enjoying wide popular support? No? Okay then it’s not an apt comparison at all.
So now you’re accusing me of racism but that’s not even close to the point I made. I was talking about the governments, not the population. There are lots of protests in Israel against the government and what they are doing in Gaza. There are none in Gaza because Hamas are murderous fundamentalists, even Hezbollah think they are crazy, who murder their opposition and oppress their own people. That said, judging by the reaction of the people of Gaza to the October attacks and the way in which random people treated the (probably) dead body of a 19 year old German girl the population are supportive of the actions of Hamas.
Here’s one for you; is your interest in this conflict, rather than the bigger and bloodier conflicts also going on in the world, because the protagonists are white? Is it because one of the protagonists is Jewish? Are you as concerned and knowledgeable about the biggest and bloodier conflicts in Sudan and Yemen etc? Are you up to speed on the treatment of the Uyghur Muslims in China of whom nearly 2 million are in concentration camps where up to 150,000 are dying each year? If not then why not? If you are going to start accusing people of racism a bit of self reflection might be a good idea first.
Duke of Marmalade
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Of course they did. Hamas thought the barbaric attack on October 7th would make them heroes in Gaza and that all Israel would do would seek a "proportionate" act of revenge. Under that playbook Hamas envisaged their standing in Gaza greatly enhanced and would copper fasten their stated right to carry out similar heroic spectaculars against Zionist* civilians in future.
But Israel were not interested in proportionate revenge - they determined to eliminate Hamas as a force in the region - an objective shared either tacitly or otherwise by everyone except Iran and of course the peaceniks here headed by our president..
* Of course using the term "Zionist" is evidence of antisemitism just as the use of the term "Fenian" in NI is anti Catholic bigotry.
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Trying to keep this on topic ...
How would you describe the status of Gaza as it has existed since say 2006 when Israel tightened the blockade considerably?
The blockade that failed to prevent Hamas building a tunnel network as big as the New York subway system? I’d day it has had a profoundly negative impact on the people of Gaza but that’s what happens when you elect genocidal terrorists to run your country.
What do you think Israel should have done? Given that Hamas are as uninterested in a two State solution as the crazies currently running Israel and have the destruction of Israel, no matter what the cost is to their own people, as their overriding goal.
Where's the evidence for that statement?
How much did they spend on it? How much have Israel spent on their military in the same time?
Hamas have the right under International Law to resist their occupiers. Israel has no right to oppress the people that they occupy.
Tunnels have proven to be very effective in the asymmetric war that Hamas are forced by their circumstances to fight, up against American supplied weapons.
You are blaming the victims.
You say that Hamas are genocidal terrorists but it's Israel who are actually carrying one out.
Not to mention that most people in Gaza weren't born when Hamas were elected.
Israel should have got out of both Gaza and The West Bank a long time ago.
Oslo all that people like Hilary Clinton and former Israeli PMs spout about previous offers are all a smokescreen.
Israel were never interested in it.
It's none of her business. She's an ambassador from an Apartheid, ethnic cleansing, murderous regime.
@jimmij , your last two posts show an appalling level of bigotry, historical ignorance and the sort of myopic obsession with Israel that is shared by so many Irish people who, by their demonstration of little or interest or concern for larger and bloodier conflicts, leads me to suspect that they are either racist or antisemitic.
You have classified the October attacks by Hamas and the murder and rape of civilians as an act of resistance.
Shameful.
You have classified the October attacks by Hamas and the murder and rape of civilians as an act of resistance.
Shameful.
So is the government of Gaza. No to mention the UAE, China, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Your posts are replete with whataboutery, attempts to conflate Judaism with Zionism and the two favourite hasbara trick questions
Do you think that Israel has a right to exist and Do you think that Israel has a right to defend itself or is it herself?
I've seen nothing from you that you wouldn't find in western MSM. Have you read any books on the conflict and if so which?
Do you think that Israel has a right to exist and Do you think that Israel has a right to defend itself or is it herself?
I've seen nothing from you that you wouldn't find in western MSM. Have you read any books on the conflict and if so which?