Tanager mortgage holders

Its a pity as you said that someone higher up cant take ownership of this issue and get it resolved. The stress and misery that this visits upon family's is incredible
 
You cannot blame a Vulture fund for being a Vulture fund just as you cannot blame a Fox for entering a Hen-House if the door’s left open. The problem is that the doors are open and the Fox is in. There is no place in our or any other society for these Vultures to be dealing with FAMILIES AND HOMES. They deal in bricks and mortar, dollars and euros, Property not People. Pressure of any kind should be put on those who have the power to effect change and protect the families who, incidentally, bailed out these banks already and have been paying for it ever since. Banks and Vultures have been working in the shadows for too long and hiding behind “non-disclosure clauses” in various arrangements. It’s high time that they were called to task over their methods, whether by demonstration or through the media. The nation needs to know.
 
BizManP said:
The problem is that the doors are open and the Fox is in. There is no place in our or any other society for these Vultures to be dealing with FAMILIES AND HOMES.
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That's a fair point, and one that I'd missed: you're right, they should not be allowed to deal in home mortgages. However, that would a sticking plaster: the real problem needs solving, and that's where the effort at getting change should primarily go.
 
Thanks for all the replies folks. Can you just outline what exactly happens when the vulture fund takes over please.
I might see about setting up a p tsb group. Might be worth contacting politicians etc.

Newtothis - can you let me know a bit about raising the funds elsewhere please. Did the fund accept a discount? I'm paying interest plus a small amount of capital. No arrears as such.
 
gahfan said:
Thanks for all the replies folks. Can you just outline what exactly happens when the vulture fund takes over please.
I might see about setting up a p tsb group. Might be worth contacting politicians etc.

Newtothis - can you let me know a bit about raising the funds elsewhere please. Did the fund accept a discount? I'm paying interest plus a small amount of capital. No arrears as such.
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To answer "what happens", on one level not much: the bank are replaced by a servicing company (in my case Capita) who deal with day-to-day interactions. They may or may not be easier to deal with. In the Danske/Cerberus case Capita replaced another handling agent, Pepper, who were by far the worst I dealt with. What does change are the options on the table and what will or will not be possible (see my post above on positives or negatives).

Raising funds elsewhere is not easy, and probably not possible if there are arrears. In my case I was in dispute over whether there were arrears or not (a very long story). One thing I would advise is to get a copy of your credit rating (it was the ICB, I believe it may have changed?). In my case there were errors that took a lot of effort to get corrected. As part of that process I somewhat surprisingly got a letter from Danske saying what a good customer I’d been, which possibly swung the new mortgage approval.

Anyway, that was the tough part. If you can get finance elsewhere, you can make an offer to the vulture fund. We needed some discount, as there was quite a difference in interest rate that we were on with the original loan, a tracker, and what’s generally available in the market. From memory, this was around a 15% discount. I offered between 30% and 35% (I don’t want to be more specific in this, an open, forum). It was accepted with no negotiation on their side. Obviously, I wished I’d asked for more in retrospect, though I’ve since heard the range others have achieved is 20% to 35%. Also, this is a minor point: I’m more than happy with the outcome.

Getting the new mortgage over the line was a real challenge: the execution of the agreement and the actual transfer was pretty straightforward though it did drag out over several weeks.

I can’t tell you the relief of reaching the end of what had been a fairly nightmare like experience of the past five years. We’ve now a manageable mortgage from one the main banks, and a business doing well to fund it (myself and my partner both lost our jobs, which had been the start of our difficulties).

Best of luck to you and others in your situation!
 
Hi All ,
Did anyone receive a letter ?
I’m due in court shortly (2nd date ) - I was told there were changes and letters would be coming out - I was focusing on that ( hoping ) .
No letter and I need to prepare for attending court . I’m slightly terrified - I had convinced myself not to be but lost my bottle now .
I pay my full interest only amount and 50% again on top towards arrears - the usual attitude from Tanager - they say it’s not an option for going forward - hence court - any advice ?
 
Letters went out on 26th of February. I spoke to them last week and they said I should have the letter this week.
They also told me to have a good read of it and ring them if I have any questions.
I asked would they be meeting people and more or less said no only if we insist.
 
thanks newtothis and others for all your advice.

How long do the vulture funds normally deal with people before looking to sell? A couple of years or are they trying to sell straight away?
 
gahfan said:
thanks newtothis and others for all your advice.

How long do the vulture funds normally deal with people before looking to sell? A couple of years or are they trying to sell straight away?
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You're welcome.

In my experience of dealing with Cerberus, they operate to a timeframe of about three years to get a return. They are not trying to sell straight away: they are trying to make a return within that timeframe, the sooner the better. There preference is to do some form of deal that doesn't involve a sale, as that will necessarily take longer, regardless of how it is done.

I'm sure they are well aware of how slowly all this takes: it took me almost a year to get a deal completed for the time they took over the loan, it concluded about seven months after I met with them for the first and only time. Unlike the banks, they do not hang around as a result.

This is all based on my experience with a different vulture fund, but I'd be surprised if Tanager were significantly different. It's also based on what happened and what I was told by them directly. However, I know they said conflicting things to other people, so they are well able to lie. Specifically, they told me they had no interest in the underlying asset; they told other people that this was the only thing they were interested in.

In short, I would expect them to move relatively quickly, though it may take many months and even one or two years to reach a conclusion. They have absolutely no interest in any solution that extends beyond their time frame. I was told they'd sell the loan on again if there was no resolution within the two to three year timeframe, but see my comment above on their capacity to lie.
 
You can buy your loan back at a discount? Is this what usually happens when dealing with vulture funds? Apologies for my intervention, but I'm a journalist writing for international readers about why there is such resistance to these funds in Ireland.
 
murphy1969 said:
You can buy your loan back at a discount? Is this what usually happens when dealing with vulture funds? Apologies for my intervention, but I'm a journalist writing for international readers about why there is such resistance to these funds in Ireland.
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Broadly speaking, No is the answer to your questions. Where have you been for the last 4 years? You need to do a bit more homework on the subject.
 
BizManP said:
Broadly speaking, No is the answer to your questions. Where have you been for the last 4 years? You need to do a bit more homework on the subject.
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Er, broadly speaking the answer is "yes" in answer to the questions: this is exactly what the vulture funds want you to do (unlike the banks). Where have you been for the remainder of this thread? You need to do a bit more homework on the subject. It's exactly what I did some months ago.

The problem is that in many (most?) cases the borrower cannot raise the funding to do this due to their history of problems in paying. In that case, the vulture fund will move to their next best option which is to sell the house, either by persuading the borrower to do so or if they refuse by forcing a sale by repossessing the house through the courts.
 
newtothis said:
Er, broadly speaking the answer is "yes" in answer to the questions: this is exactly what the vulture funds want you to do (unlike the banks). Where have you been for the remainder of this thread? You need to do a bit more homework on the subject. It's exactly what I did some months ago.

The problem is that in many (most?) cases the borrower cannot raise the funding to do this due to their history of problems in paying. In that case, the vulture fund will move to their next best option which is to sell the house, either by persuading the borrower to do so or if they refuse by forcing a sale by repossessing the house through the courts.
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So if the borrower cannot get finance...... the answer is no.
 
Is there not protection for homeowners through the courts though? If a person is making a decent effort.
 
newtothis said:
You're welcome.

In my experience of dealing with Cerberus, they operate to a timeframe of about three years to get a return. They are not trying to sell straight away: they are trying to make a return within that timeframe, the sooner the better. There preference is to do some form of deal that doesn't involve a sale, as that will necessarily take longer, regardless of how it is done.

I'm sure they are well aware of how slowly all this takes: it took me almost a year to get a deal completed for the time they took over the loan, it concluded about seven months after I met with them for the first and only time. Unlike the banks, they do not hang around as a result.

This is all based on my experience with a different vulture fund, but I'd be surprised if Tanager were significantly different. It's also based on what happened and what I was told by them directly. However, I know they said conflicting things to other people, so they are well able to lie. Specifically, they told me they had no interest in the underlying asset; they told other people that this was the only thing they were interested in.

In short, I would expect them to move relatively quickly, though it may take many months and even one or two years to reach a conclusion. They have absolutely no interest in any solution that extends beyond their time frame. I was told they'd sell the loan on again if there was no resolution within the two to three year timeframe, but see my comment above on their capacity to lie.
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Thanks again newtothis. If they took over a loan and the person is paying am agreed amount of interest plus a small portion of capital do they accept that or do they immediately try to get it increased
 
gahfan said:
Is there not protection for homeowners through the courts though? If a person is making a decent effort.
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Not as of right. However, if you go through some of Brendan's reports, it's clear courts are dealing very sympathetically with people "making a decent effort", and your chances of losing your home when paying at least the interest and you're doing the best you can beyond that are just about zero.
 
gahfan said:
Thanks again newtothis. If they took over a loan and the person is paying am agreed amount of interest plus a small portion of capital do they accept that or do they immediately try to get it increased
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Quite possibly, but I'd make sure that they comply with the MARP requirements. They may seek an increased payment as part of this which is fair enough if you have it, but I wouldn't agree to it if it affects your ability to put food on the table or heat your home. There's no doubt if you're not in a position to finance elsewhere you're worse off with a vulture fund, though if the bank you're with won't act to reach a resolution either there's probably not much in it.

A resolution happens when it's in both parties' best interests: if you can pay interest plus part capital it's quite possible to work out some long term arrangement with a bank that extends the term and/or increases payments over time as your capacity to do so improves or whatever. It's in both your interests to do this - the bank after all was happy to enter a long-term loan arrangement in the first place. However, a vulture fund has no interest in anything long term: they are interested in getting as much as possible out of you in the short term and in converting to loan to cash by having you refinance elsewhere or selling the house.

This might seem to make you very vulnerable and in a weak position. However, and this is a huge credit to the courts, your position is actually quite strong as the courts take the (correct) view that it is the lender who is being unreasonable. It's important however to be able to show that you are being reasonable: keep doing what you're doing, paying what you can, and keep asking for a long-term solution that keeps you in your home. The more they resist you, the more unreasonable they will seem, which will not go unnoticed.

The other thing I would do is get some professional advice for your particular situation, as there may well be some other solution out there for you.

Finally, you are not alone!



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