Supplying water and electricity to neighbours field.

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Nutcracker

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Hi,
I’m supplying water and electricity to my neighbours field. The field is about 10 acres and is used for cattle and silage. The electricity is for the fencer and the water is for a few troughs. This started out as a temporary arrangement about 5 years ago as he said he would be getting his own well. He has given me an occasional small payment but I doubt it covers the cost.
I feel he should be paying more as the field is useless without water/electricity. I would also like the payment and arrangement to be a bit more regular as it’s a very loose arrangement currently.
Would anyone suggest a ballpark figure of what would normally be paid per year for an arrangement like this?
Thanks for your help.
 
I think those electric fences use very little electricity so the cost for that would be minimal.

Being connected to your water meains wouldnt cost you much either (or anything?).
 
Nutcracker said:
Would anyone suggest a ballpark figure of what would normally be paid per year for an arrangement like this?
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This might help with estimating the cost of the electric fence?
www.agrisellex.co.uk

What Does It Cost to Run a Fence Energiser?

It is always important to know how much a particular electric energiser is going to cost you to run.
www.agrisellex.co.uk www.agrisellex.co.uk
Or just plug it into a cheap watt meter to get the exact kWh usage?
 
Nutcracker said:
I feel he should be paying more as the field is useless without water/electricity.
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Maybe so but having good neighbourly relations can be worth the cost in a rural setting.

Nutcracker said:
I would also like the payment and arrangement to be a bit more regular as it’s a very loose arrangement currently.
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Then just ask for it.

The best way to do it is to meter. You can buy a plug-in meter for €15 and programme it with your marginal rate and send a photo every so often with the running total.


For the water I presume you are on a group scheme. Do you pay a flat fee or is it metered?
 
I'm pretty sure that your local group water scheme rules prohibit the subsupply of water from a scheme member/consumer to a third party.
 
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So this is rather important. If your neighbour is running beef animals then the water consumption could be quite small. If it is dairy, well a dairy cow needs 8 litres of water for every litre of milk and the average cow is peaking at 25 litres of milk a day. Most of that comes grass but that depends on the weather. On a sunny day almost 70% of the water must be sourced from your water source. This is a huge spread between running 15 cows for 12 6 months or intensive dairy production for only 12 days....

So if you have the typical 90 dairy cows, they could be consuming a nice bit of water. More importantly if it's your pump and well. Domestic wells were not set-up to support this level of draw. It could burn out the pump or run it dry in a drought. Pricing a figure really depends on the type of agriculture production occurring.
 
as a matter of interest what are your right if you are getting water and electricity long term from neighbour or family member maybe the solicitors here can advise
 
Nutcracker said:
Hi,
I’m supplying water and electricity to my neighbours field. The field is about 10 acres and is used for cattle and silage. The electricity is for the fencer and the water is for a few troughs. This started out as a temporary arrangement about 5 years ago as he said he would be getting his own well. He has given me an occasional small payment but I doubt it covers the cost.
I feel he should be paying more as the field is useless without water/electricity. I would also like the payment and arrangement to be a bit more regular as it’s a very loose arrangement currently.
Would anyone suggest a ballpark figure of what would normally be paid per year for an arrangement like this?
Thanks for your help.
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The trouble with this temporary arrangement is your now on the back foot.
How genuine was the farmer regarding getting his own well 5 years back. A well will not work without electricity supply. Drilling for a well costs can also be heavy.
I would be trying to remove myself from the position totally.
If you go after the farmer for regular payment etc it wont go down well.
If you stop the arrangement it wont go down well.
If it was me I would advise the farmer that in 90 days you will need to cease the arrangement after taking advise.
Good luck.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. The water is from my own domestic well, not from a group scheme. I can estimate the fencer cost from the wattage. Not so easy to do with the water. The field is used for cattle, not dairy, but it’s still difficult to estimate the water cost.
Would anyone have typical figures for what would normally be paid for the above water and elec supply? As I mentioned, I think the amount paid should be more than just what it costs me, as the field is useless without it and it would cost the farmer significantly more to install his own supply.
 
Nutcracker said:
As I mentioned, I think the amount paid should be more than just what it costs me
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The marginal cost of a litre coming out of your well is zero. It is literally costing you nothing.

However it's reasonable that he should make a contribution to your capital cost however. That rate is up to you and him to strike but it's not really much to do with the volume used.
 
Nutcracker said:
The water is from my own domestic well, not from a group scheme. I can estimate the fencer cost from the wattage. Not so easy to do with the water.
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this guy is getting a great deal from you, the field is basically unusable to him without your assistance. The fact that you are pumping water from your own well means that this could be costing you alot. You could always switch off the water when cattle are in the field and see how long it takes to empty the troughs or half empty them, then calculate the water usage by dividing the volume of the trough by the time it takes to empty, use metres cubed ,

for example if the trough is 2m x 1m x 0.5m and takes 8hrs to empty, well then consumption is 1m cubed every 8 hrs, obviously they not drink much at night so a good estimate is 2m cubed per day in this case, irish water charge 1.85 euros per metre cubed for commercial supply in 2021.
You need to be sure that the troughs are not overflowing , leaking, or pipes leading to them leaking, if that was the case the water consumption could be huge and be a constant draw on your well . Many farmers get hit with huge water bills because of leaking pipes and faulty drinkers overflowing from metered sources
 
As far as I know, a connection to the water supply for farm use is much more expensive than a residential connection.
 
Páid said:
As far as I know, a connection to the water supply for farm use is much more expensive than a residential connection.
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There aren't too many farms in areas server by Irish Water. The IW connection guides or charges plans don't reference agricultural use, but small business connection charges start at the same level as domestic rates.
 
It's not mixed use as in a lot of small business because it's directly supplying water to a field for the sole commercial purpose of farming.

There's no way to know how much it would cost without a quote but my guess is that the connection charge alone will be at the higher end.
 
Páid said:
There's no way to know how much it would cost without a quote but my guess is that the connection charge alone will be at the higher end.
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It's almost certainly not even an option! IW supply isn't possible for the vast majority of one-off rural homes, let alone single fields!
 
Then the farmer has the cost of drilling a well.

My point is that the options for the farmer are expensive. @Nutcracker might want to take this into account when coming up with a figure.
 
Páid said:
Then the farmer has the cost of drilling a well.

My point is that the options for the farmer are expensive. @Nutcracker might want to take this into account when coming up with a figure.
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Yes, the alternative for the farmer is to drill their own well and run electricity (or install a battery system) to power it, but the IW connection charges aren't a good guide to those costs.

The OP should factor their costs for electricity and the ongoing maintenance of their well and related equipment, and the risk that the demand might exceed the supply capacity of the current well if the water table drops during an extended dry spell.
 
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