Supplementary Pension (Post Aug 2024) and work

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DingDing

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I retired October at 60 and I am claiming the supplementary pension and I am not making any claim for SW payments.

I had to sign a declaration I was not self-employed and I have arranged with my pensions administrator that I would give them a schedule of the days worked before each pay rise so that they can deduct the supplementary pension paid for days worked over that period.

So far so good, Its a handful of days of interview panels, that sort of thing.

I was approached to do a small piece of work, a couple of weeks, but they are proposing a fee, rather than employment.

Does this push me into self-employment, as it really is a one-off, or do I just decline the work as too much bother administratively?

It is not work risking the supplementary pension for 5 years.

I would be interested in people's thoughts.

In fairness the scheme with the supplementary pension and working is completely mad.
 
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I made a bit of progress with this, but as with everything, generally it raises more questions than answers.

The response was:-

Any work where the individual is accruing a Class S PRSI stamp is considered self-employment.

Where an individual is self-employed, they are deemed to be in full time employment, and they are not eligible for an OSP, as per sections 4 and 5.2 of Circular 12/2024.
As such, if the individual takes up self-employment while in receipt of an OSP, the OSP will cease to be payable until such a time as the individual is no longer self-employed.

Pro-rata OSP is not applicable to self-employment.
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So I can be self employed and when I cease to be self-employed I can avail of the OSP.

Self employment being defined by the payment of an S PRSI stamp.

I am looking at the revenue site to try to make sense of it.

Can I be self employed for a period say of a couple of weeks, play the S stamp for these weeks and have the correspond deduction on the OSP and when the assignment finishes, go back to not being self employed, or is the commitment to self employment more long term.

Also any tips on the logistics of being self employed on the revenue system would be much appreciated as well.
 
Earned self employment does not have weekly class S stamps applied. You would only become liable to pay class S if your self employment earnings exceed 5k per year. When this level of pay is reached you then automatically pay 650 euro Prsi and receive a full years contributions of 52 class S.

Does this mean that you are then considered as being self employed for that full year ?

I don't know the answer to this.

If you worked in self employment and earned less than 5k during the year you would not be liable to pay any class S Prsi.
Does this mean that from a supplementary pension point of view you were not engaged in self employment ?
The response you got would seem to indicate that you would not be considered as self employed.

However you could run into a problem if you have an ARF and are paying class S Prsi on it.

In this case any earned self employment might be liable to class S Prsi, even if the self employment income is less than 5k.

I dont know the answer to this either.

The rule where combined income greater than 5k from an ARF and unearned self employment income makes a person liable to class S Prsi, might also extend to combined earned self employment income and an ARF.

There are weird situations regarding combinations of Prsi earnings. One situation is where a person has class A or M Prsi income and also has unearned self employment income (rental or investment) greater than 5k per year. They will pay class K on their unearned income.

If this person also has any earned self employment income (no matter how small) they will then pay class S Prsi on their unearned income.

The % rate of payment for class S and K are identical, but class K is not Reckonable. A major advantage can be gained from a tiny amount of earned self employment.

Could there also be situations where a major disadvantage could occur as a result of a tiny amount of earned self employment ?
 
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Thanks @S class the assignment would be earn more than 5K and I suspected that as you say the S Class stamp was in place for the year. I don't have an ARF. If the S Class stamp was in place for the year, from the clarification from my pensions officer, I would probably not be entitles to a supplementary pension for this year, and I would have to repay the supplementary pension

There might be an option where a company is created and invoices for the work, however this is a pile of work and cost as well.

It shows another big difference between the D and A class pensioners.

My D class retired colleagues have no such constraints on working.

Also if I signed for credits, this would be a further complication as I would have to "sign off" probably.


I raised a query with the Dept of Social Protection on this as well. If I get any further on this I will post it here.

Another option might be to work through a company who invoices for the work and pays me through payroll. This would also add a layer of cost.
 
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Ok, Just thinking about this. If a (small) limited company / partnership, was set up with myself and my wife, what are the pitfalls / advantages of this.

Looking at this, I would not be a prescribed relative of my wife.

I suppose the company could invoice for any work and if I took a wage from the company an A stamp, Tax and USC would be paid on it.
If I don't the money would accumulate as assets in the company which could be used when my wife retires (D Stamp, with about 130 A stamps previously earned) to give her earnings which would attract a stamp which would count towards her credits for a contributory pension.

We also have an investment property, perhaps the rent of the property could be put through the company as well, funding an A stamp for my wife.

With the 130 A stamps and 100 change of status credits, if she retires in the last weeks of the year at age 60. This would be 230 stamps. She would then earn the 520 stamps in a further 5.8 years or just before her 66th birthday. Ideally the company / partnership structure would need to allow my wife to earn A stamps.

Any ideas, or anyone done anything similar.

It looks like in a partnership each partner must pay Tax USC and PRSI on their share of the profits. Would this be class A PRSI.

I think it's time to talk to an accountant.
 
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Your company/ partnership sounds like a good possible solution.
I don't know anything about setting that up.

The rental income could be useful to your wife when she ceases her class D employment and starts her pension.

She would then be paying class M on her pension income and class K on her share of the rental income.

If her share of the rental is over 5k per year she could get this to convert to 52 class S if she had any earned self employment.

Any amount of earned self employment would achieve this.
She could for instance do a small amount of gardening work for a friend and declare her modest earnings as self employment.
 
Thanks S Class.

Got this from Social Protection. So some sort of company / partnership is required.




Hi,





Thank you for your email.



Class S contributions are awarded once self assessed income is € 5000.00 and above in a year. It does not matter what time it takes to earn that amount.

FORM 11 is returned to Revenue after the year has finished eg. 2025 year cannot be returned until January 2026.



Kind Regards,
 
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The beneficial owner of a company is S class, so I can't be an owner of the company. They don't make it easy.
 
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