student nurses... are you kidding me?

The reality is politicians can promise what they want, and don't believe a word of it, any government can only do what they can pay for!
 
thedaras said:
Can anyone answer this question?
Do "student" Nurses work independently during this fourth year of "Training"?

What I am trying to establish is, Is there is a fully "qualified " nurse rostered for say and 8 to 8 shift,,is she then replaced by "trainee" nurse ?

Or does the "fully qualified" nurse,have to remain with the "trainee?

Reason I want to know is ,if the "Trainee" must be Shadowed by a "qualified "nurse are we are paying both of them a wage?
Click to expand...

1. Yes.
2. Yes, the trainee nurse is not supernumery.
3. Employing student nurses saves the hospital on wages. Note that an agency nurse to replace a staff nurse will cost more than a staff nurse's wages.

Just thought:- My earlier post might have offended you, it was never meant to.
 
None taken Leper;but cheers for that.

If the situation is that the trainees go in and do a full days work,replacing existing staff,and not under supervision,then I would agree that they should be paid.

I'm amazed that the Nurses union is allowing this though.
Because in effect they are taking work/pay from fully qualified nurses??
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedaras
Can anyone answer this question?
Do "student" Nurses work independently during this fourth year of "Training"?

What I am trying to establish is, Is there is a fully "qualified " nurse rostered for say and 8 to 8 shift,,is she then replaced by "trainee" nurse ?

Or does the "fully qualified" nurse,have to remain with the "trainee?

Reason I want to know is ,if the "Trainee" must be Shadowed by a "qualified "nurse are we are paying both of them a wage?
Click to expand...

So here are the answers to my question;

annet said:
The staff nurse as the fully trained member of staff is the person who will be held professionally and legally accountable for whatever may arise on the ward....

And there must alway's be qualified staff nurses on any unit.....fourth year students are not allowed to manage a ward! Patient care involves the delegation of workload to junior colleagues.....
Click to expand...
And this one;

Posted byLeper:
1. Yes.
2. Yes, the trainee nurse is not supernumery.
3. Employing student nurses saves the hospital on wages. Note that an agency nurse to replace a staff nurse will cost more than a staff nurse's wages.
Click to expand...
So which one is correct?? Im lost!
 
Last edited:
thedaras said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedaras


So here are the answers to my question;


And this one;

Posted byLeper:

So which one is correct?? Im lost!
Click to expand...

They both are really. You would not staff a ward with only 4th year trainees so in that sense there has to be qualified nurses on the ward as well.

Equally, during the time when there are no 4th year nurses, you would not staff a ward with only newly qualified nurses.

It's called skill mix and the CNM/Director of Nursing has to ensure there is a good skill mix in place.
 
I strolled over to www.inmo.ie
And not a article on this issue on the front page

If all Liam Doran can come up with is "slave labour", maybe it's time to sack him and get a better union rep, well he wasn't working for free.

Or resigning from the union and getting better representation
It's your union subs who pay these so get the best reps that you can
 
micmclo said:
I strolled over to www.inmo.ie
And not a article on this issue on the front page

If all Liam Doran can come up with is "slave labour", maybe it's time to sack him and get a better union rep, well he wasn't working for free.

Or resigning from the union and getting better representation
It's your union subs who pay these so get the best reps that you can
Click to expand...

I'm sure INMO members will take your views on board !

Or perhaps now that the INMO organised protest has led to a review of the situation perhaps they consider that the subs are well worth paying ?

After all ,one must ask the question - would the position have been reviewed without union representation ?
 
Nursing is a vocation and not a graduate job.
Lose the care assistants and let nurses go back to what they were originally were.
It's the doctors job to dispense medication. Nurses are there to care, make beds, do the lower work

But they got rid of the vocation idea, made it a graduate degree and now graduate salaries are expected.
Nursing is a vocation, if you want top money go study and get the points to be a doctor and be prepared to work the 36 hour shifts

If not, there are nurses from the Philippines who can do your job better then you
 
micmclo said:
Nursing is a vocation and not a graduate job.
Lose the care assistants and let nurses go back to what they were originally were.
It's the doctors job to dispense medication. Nurses are there to care, make beds, do the lower work

But they got rid of the vocation idea, made it a graduate degree and now graduate salaries are expected.
Nursing is a vocation, if you want top money go study and get the points to be a doctor and be prepared to work the 36 hour shifts

If not, there are nurses from the Philippines who can do your job better then you
Click to expand...

What a stupid post and also racist. Surely a case for being deleted by the Moderators?

It is also an insult to the Nurses back up people. Moderator, please delete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Can you point me to the part where I was racist? Ease up on the exclamation marks, one is enough unless you are an attention seeker

Why do nurses have backup people as you put it? Why are there care assistants to do the tasks nurses once did but now nurses are higher paid?
This can all be looked at
 
First of all micmclo, by and large doctors don't dispense medication, pharmacists do. Nurses administer medication, doctors prescribe it (although some nurses do also). Your post with regard to nursing being a vocation is outdated. Nursing is a career. It's a profession. It's a job. Yes those who enter it should really want to do it and should be interested in caring for patients but this doesn't make it a vocation. Also to suggest that caring is the 'lower work' is ignorant beyond belief. Ask any patient who has been looked after by a caring nurse...I doubt they would class their work as 'lower'. One final point...being caring and having a degree education are not mutually exclusive.
 
1. Why should the Care Assistants (and/or do you mean Attendants?) be lost? Nursing is a caring professon, why should they return to what they once were when they were the most exploited people in hospitals?

2. Nurses administer medication. Is there a reason whythey should not?

3. Of course salaries are expected, do you think they should work for nothing?

5. Nurses from the Phillippines - who ever said they can do the job of an Irish nurse better than an Irish nurse? If this is not racism, I dont know what is. But, I think your are under the impression that foreign nurses get paid less than Irish nurses in Ireland. If so, you are wrong.

Your point on NCHDs (hospital doctors) doing 36 hours shift. They get paid a far higer rate than the nurses. Also, hospital doctors are not expected to work continuously for 36 hours. The hospital doctors have sleeping quarters in every hospital and if they are sleeping during their shifts they get paid. Nurses dont sleep on the job.

And exclamation marks - I'll use as many as I like - Thank You.
 
Leper said:
But, I think your are under the impression that foreign nurses get paid less than Irish nurses in Ireland. If so, you are wrong.
Click to expand...

But I didn't post that.
But it's been posted a few times in this thread that it costs €90,000 to train a nurse through college.
Cutting back on training places and if there is a shortage bringing in trained nurses no matter where they are from is an instant money saver.
 
Miclmlo, While I am a supporter of free speech. You are digging deeper while still in a hole. The same could be said about any profession.

1. Why train Irish doctors when we can use foreign doctors?

2. Why train Irish nurses when we can use foreign nurses?

3. Why train Irish accountants when we can use foreign accountants?

4 Why train Irish engineers when we can use foreign engineers?

5. Why train Irish shop assistants when we can use foreign shop assistants?


Add in any profession/trade/employment title you wish and I am sure you will keep digging. Let's be fair here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (knew you'd like the !!!!!)
 
micmclo said:
But I didn't post that.
But it's been posted a few times in this thread that it costs €90,000 to train a nurse through college.
Cutting back on training places and if there is a shortage bringing in trained nurses no matter where they are from is an instant money saver.
Click to expand...

Do I think your suggestion that nurses from the Phillipines can do a better job than Irish nurses racist - no.

Idiotic - yes.

Nurses are nurses no matter what their nationality is & one nationality is as likely to do a professional job as another.
 
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