galway_blow_in
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You mean the demographic who took many a bullet so your lot didn't have to have any recession at all
Sixty seven or sixty eight by the time you retire The Reason politicians look over there shoulder is back in the eighties the people who are now retired went out on the street and took on both FF/FG/Labour and won,
The above statement says it all about the forty something of today,
No, I obviously don't know what the future holds.I don’t need the money I have invested in equities but if I do need it I have access to it , you don’t know what the future holds if I need 200k tomorrow for something I can liquidate my investments , if it’s in a pension pot it’s uselss to me .
People on 20% tax rate who can afford to save paying into a pension to max out there age allowed pension tax break should finish up with a very good pension as a % of there final salary even if they have to stop paying into pension at some stages of there working life provided the max out there payments in the early years of there working life,I’d echo all of Sarenco’s comments. Also, it’s hard to envisage a scenario where a 20% rate taxpayer gets hammered. Neglecting pension investment in favour of personal investment is crazy in my view.
I am not in favour of putting money away now for the future in the hope that A) myself and wife are in good health to enjoy it and B) it's not going to be fleeced by the government , I think B is a huge possibility people may say its not but I think the people with private pensions will be subsidising the people who made no sacrifices and left nothing . Nothing could convince me to put money into a pension pot .
I suspect you are not taking into account the 15 billion in the National pension reserve fund also spent by Noonan on the BanksSo basically your approach is to spend most of your money now on various experiences, and once that is more of less spent on lifestyle, you then will be one of those who have made no sacrifices yourself and look for the tax payer to bail you out.
I do agree though that if the government is to bring in mandatory pension enrollment they need to firmly put legislation in place which does not allow pension funds to be raided in the future the same way as Michael Noonan did in the financial crises. This discussion needs to be brought front and centre with the next government - the current one is unlikely to implement it since they are the ones who raided them in the first place.
no I am not talking about any of that - although all valid points.I suspect you are not taking into account the 15 billion in the National pension reserve fund also spent by Noonan on the Banks
I suspect no TD looked for the 3.4Billion taken in from selling 28.75% of AIB to be returned to the Reserve pension Fund,
I am 42 - so at the moment I am 26 years away from whatever I may potentially get from a state pensionI'm 31 now god only knows what age i will access the state pension from. I think its looking like 68 now. So i'm left in the position i can access my private pension from 60, my job will kick me out at 65 and i wont get the state pension till 68.
While a noble principle, the reality is there is considerable taxation on investment type assets in Ireland whether it be deposit, shares or unit funds.My logic with the shares is the money is there if i need it but don't expect to need it for next 20 years.
I am totally in agreement with you The problem we have in this Country go back to the fact FF / FG and Labour are the same party we have copped on to labour now we need to find a party who will look after the people who worked all of there life seen over 15% PRSIA 1 taken in payroll only to see more groups Parachuting in to rob there prsi fund every few years by FF/FG and Labour,no I am not talking about any of that - although all valid points.
I am talking about the raiding of the private pension funds with the pension levy, which is akin to attacking deposit holders accounts.
At the next election, I have one simple question for the politicians that knock on my door - I want to know how they are going to ensure that after 40 plus years paying PRSI that I will have a State pension fund to draw down when I retire AND how are they proposing to fund it?
No, I obviously don't know what the future holds.
But if your equity portfolio plunges 20% in the morning you won't have access to 100% of your money anymore - you will have to accept a 20% haircut if you want to liquidate your equity investments.
It's certainly true that the Government could expropriate pension savings at some point in the future. Or anything else that they fancy. Look at what happened to CGT rates, income tax, USC, DIRT, Exit tax, PRSI on unearned income, etc., during our most recent financial crisis.
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I’d echo all of Sarenco’s comments. Also, it’s hard to envisage a scenario where a 20% rate taxpayer gets hammered by any tightening of the rules. Neglecting pension investment in favour of personal investment is crazy in my view.
At present lobby groups are raiding the prsi Fund indirectly if lobby groups want the same pension as people who seen 15% prsi of there payroll go to the PRSI FUND,This argument makes no sense to me , your assuming my portfolio hasn't grown at all and even if it lost 20% i'd rather have 80% of something than 100% of nothing. I can't access my pension till retirement .
What if you found out a kid was really sick and needed to go to America to fund treatment? What use is 200k in a pension to me then? I'd much rather instant access to 80% of that money , it's hard to put a value on the instant access to that money , you have put a value on it and to you pension investment is worth it , to me its not , not having access to that amount of money until retirement I would need to be compensated a lot more.
And if they tax pensions what can you do other than sit there and take it , I can move my money out of my investments I might decide to buy a place abroad , cash up and leave the country altogether or anything else I chose to do , again this non financial value is huge to me.
And equally I think investing in something that you don't get back for 30+ years in my case is crazy when I strongly believe the government are going to raid pension funds in the future.
This is a not a straight forward right or wrong decision its a personal judgement call based on all the facts available , I think locking money away is crazy based on what I have said about not been able to put a value on having access to money when you need it for whatever or moving it to be avoid penal taxes or an opportunity that may arise , maybe i'll buy a place abroad with my money and retire at 50 to spain , you cannot put a value on that , the fact the government has shown capacity to raid private pensions in the past I think people that invest are extremely naive to believe they won't be again and paying for the people that were'nt so prudent in their planning.
the state pension in its current form is unsustainable , the population is ageing , eventually politicians will have to cease showering the elderly with goodies , wont happen for a good few years yet but im forty and the goose will be long cooked by the time im sixty five
As you said, population aging, more people will be impacted by changing the pension rules, which means more voters. I doubt any political party will grasp this nettle
Not so sure no political party will grasp the nettle ,As you said, population aging, more people will be impacted by changing the pension rules, which means more voters. I doubt any political party will grasp this nettle
Not so sure no political party will grasp the nettle ,
The amount of people in this country who pay PRSI under the payroll system seeing 15% going into the PRSI Fund only to see the likes of FF/FG and LABOUR squander it on lobby groups ,
The day will come when one of the Political party or a New Political party will come into being with a slogan WE are needed to keep FF/FG /SF and Labour honest and ensure people who have paid PRSI into a fund are protected they only need to hold the balance of power for it to work
Look at how the IFA Campaign worked to get there Members and others into the PRSI FUND ahead of the review that is coming up,
It made more since for the Prsi Fund point of view to wait until the review was completed first before parachute more into a fund already in trouble ,
Now people will long term have to pay more PRSI to fund our new visitors,
Most have being fattening them self With a Private pension on the savings made by not paying PRSI,
Absolutely. What you will see if a major divide between public and private sector pensions as well, deepening the mistrust between the two groups. Private sector state pension will rise to 70its going to take a massive change in public mindset to deal with this time bomb , most dont realise just how spoiled the elderly currently are and that anyone who is thirty today wont be anywhere as well looked after by government
Employment-related pension funds can be accessed at age 50; that’s hardly restrictive, is it?
You are entitled to do what you like as it’s your money, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s an insane strategy.
No doubt you could insure against the black swan events you’re worried about with a view to contributing to a pension and still be better off.
Absolutely. What you will see if a major divide between public and private sector pensions as well, deepening the mistrust between the two groups. Private sector state pension will rise to 70
The problem is it needs to be tackled now for someone due to retire in 2040, to allow people some level of forward planning to cater for this. No point pulling the rug under their feet in 2035 just before they are due to retire.
My personal view is there should be no contributory state pension - there should be a mandatory pension scheme for everyone who is working with at least 5% contributions from employees and employers each going into it (numbers up for discussion but the higher the better). This can come off current PRSI contributions, or at least reduce them somewhat. When people retire, they should be eligible for a means tested pension based on their income & wealth. So if someone is sitting on a 1 million asset and minimum income, they need to downsize to accommodate their revised circumstances. Those who have little or nothing should get some sort of assistance from the government - effectively the safety net !