Still unable to sell house - should I take it off the market for another year

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Carolina said:
Do you agree that common factors influence these markets? Do you think that buying into several Irish property markets or even European property markets represents diversification?
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There are some common factors but essentially they are different markets.
Yes.
 
Thomas22 said:
Thats like saying gold mining stocks in two different countries are different markets/risks.
It just isn't true
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Maybe Banco Halifax Hispania will want to rent a two bedroom apartment in Leitrim in the future but I doubt it.
 
demoivre said:
Maybe Banco Halifax Hispania will want to rent a two bedroom apartment in Leitrim in the future but I doubt it.
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I'm not saying they are exactly same but very very similar.
If you don't see why a portfolio invested in property in Ireland, the UK, Spain etc. etc. is poorly diversified then load up your portfolio with all the asssets you can find.

But you are completely wrong IMO.
 
Lads-most of this is turining into a debate and not really helping the OP.

Feel free to continue the debate in The Great Financial Debates and you can link back to this thread.

Thanks.
 
Yeah no probs CCOVICH but I would respectfully suggest to you that, if people contributing to the thread believe that the demand /supply of office space in Barcelona is strongly correlated to the demand /supply of two bedroomed apartments in Leitrim, then shooting the breeze is the place to move the debate.
 
CCOVICH said:
Lads-most of this is turining into a debate and not really helping the OP.
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Yes, sorry for going off on a tangent.

Elaine, you have property investment assets that you believed 18 months ago to be worth around €3m. Based on reports like this :
[broken link removed]
Your property has probably depreciated by 15% since sep 2006. So your portfolio is worth about €2.5m.

You have young children and a nurse's income of 50k(?). Your health is not great.

You don't state your financial objectives.
I'm guessing:
Send kids to college
Lease or buy family home in Dublin.
Pay for top of the range health insurance and perhaps PHI or serious illness insurance too.
You haven't told us what other major expenditures you may face in the future.
You haven't told us what regular income you want to live off or whether you need any regular income from your investments. Perhaps your salary is enough?

If you can't sell your house that's because your price is still too high even though you have reduced the asking price. 15% off 1.8m is 1.5m. You'd be lucky to have only lost 15% in the past 18 months. The true value could be lower. This should be OK for you to swallow given that you inherited these properties and that you will have made significant capital gains since acquisition.

Your rental income is about 50K. Your net income after maintenance, advertising, empty periods, time spent evicting tenants and so on is going to be a lot less.

You are getting a gross yield of around 2%. A net yield of maybe 1.5%. This is a terrible return on your assets.

You can get three times this yield in the bank with no risk to your capital. You could have an investment income of 112K/ year without any of your time being wasted.

You should probably invest some money in fixed income government bonds, some in index-tracking equity funds and some in a high interest cash savings account. The equities should be held for decades.

As regards the future of the D4 property market. It's anyone's guess. One thing I would say is that whenever people start to recommend a stock as being a good port in a storm, that stock tends to get overvalued. X never goes down is a good indication that it will certainly fall one day.

Here is an article written by an Irish stockbroker in 2006 describing why he thought property in Dublin 4 was particularly overvalued at the time. It's clearly written and very convincing.


Predictions for next year's property prices can be taken with a pinch of alt but consensus seems to be that they will drop. The thing about a report like this: http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/printer_1000article_1011758.shtml
from Goodbody stockbrokers predicting a drop in Irish property in 2008 is that it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy as everyone starts to dump property to avoid the coming fall in prices. Looking at the aftermath of property bubbles in other countries like Japan, one thing that stuck out for me was the way that prices could keep sliding year on year for 10 years or more. There are other cities in the world where a 3,500 sq ft beautiful period property in the most fashionable streets in the city centre can be had for 500K. For example Zurenborg in Antwerp http://www.trabel.com/antwerp/zurenborg.htm

When Irish people see this they find it hard to take in. I think you are facing significant risk by holding onto property in the face of absolutely dreadful returns and potential yearly losses that are a multiple of your gross salary.
 

Excellent post. I think that summaries the options for the OP perfectly
 
Carolina said:
When Irish people see this they find it hard to take in. I think you are facing significant risk by holding onto property in the face of absolutely dreadful returns and potential yearly losses that are a multiple of your gross salary.
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That is an excellent post.

There are two conflicting stories being told today about the future for Irish residential property as an asset class. One is told by David McWilliams, George Lee and Morgan Kelly. A very different story is told by Dan McLaughlin, Austin Hughes and Tom Parlon.

The OP's financial well being is totally tied to this asset class, so they should decide which story they believe and act accordingly.
 
Xman

The first three who made a report are simply reporters that do not have a vested interest. The second three are either bankers or are involved with the construction industry. They do have a vested interest. Now who do you expect Joe Public to believe ???
 
mercman said:
Xman

Now who do you expect Joe Public to believe ???
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I don't know who they will believe mercman. But I reckon people who are significantly exposed financially to residential property like the OP, or who are considering becoming heavily exposed to the sector, should at least familiarise themselves thoroughly with both sides of the debate so they can make an informed decision.
 
Thanks again to all of you for your replies. Carolina, my only other major expenditure besides a mortgage of E350.00 per month is childcare - E1500 per month, however, this will half when my son joins my daughter in school in September. Despite my health problems, I have managed to get salary protection (at a price!!) plus I have PHI. I currenlty live off my salary, plus maintenance for the children from their father. I currently use the rental income from the smaller dublin house (the one I am not selling) for childcare expenses, but as I said these will half next September - roll on September!!

In response to the person who suggested selling my other properties, I don't want to sell them as they are all newish propterties, the oldest being 20 years old, and maintenance costs are minimal.

My reason for selling the period property is that people have attempted to con me on several occasions in relation to maintenance issues. It may be something to do with the 'woman on her own issue'. I am also sick to the teech of 'experts' in relation to period properties. For instance, I spent nearly 18 months worrying that the white damp patches on the terracotta tiles in the kitchen were signs of at the very least (1) signs of severe damp; (2) a groundwater problem (as one 'expert' suggested; (3) an underground stream or well in the garden/yard, whose level had suddenly begun to rise. I couldn't sleep at night with the worry and all the conflicting advice from 'experts'. Many of you will probably remember my posts about it. In the end, the white patches on the floor turned out to be a pipe which had been leaking in several places under the kitchen floor. A leak detection company, meanwhile, had come out, and, after an hour in my house, told me there was absolutely no leak there - ahh, experts, experts, experts!!! - three days later the floor tiles were lifted and there was water everywhere.

So, basically, I want to get rid of the older properpty because I can't stand all the worry over it. If one of my tenants from the other properties rings me late at night with a problem in one of the houses, I don't think, major catastrophe, sleepless nights and major expense, but when a tenant rings from my period property, I think catastrophe, and feel physically sick.

As I said before, I couldn't sell the property in 2006 as the tenants would not leave. Prior to that I had been living off the rent, as I had taken three years out of work to look after my daughter who was sick a lot at the time. I also, fooliishly, perhaps, had a sentimental attachment to the house, as my mother bought it after she had surgery for breast cancer, and doing up the house was her 'therapy' and later on her pride and joy.

In relation to the price, I have reduced the price. However, I note that the estate agent has not followed my request to do so on the website. Again, on the second agent, I feel I have lost confidence in all estate agents, and nearly would be better off selling it myself - a bit extreme perhaps, but that's the way I feel.

As regards, securing a sale, I feel the market is so bad currently, that one can hardly give away property - so whatever the price, a sale is probably unlikely. After all, if a purchaster feel the price is too high, he/she can always put in an offer below the asking price.

Sorry the post is so longwinded.
 
Your property is still for sale at 1.7 million on myhome and daft, if you have agreed to reduce the price then surely your estate agent should honour your request and advertise as such, you ARE paying them after all.
I assume they are getting at least 1.5% commission. If they have not done this then perhaps an urgent phone call is needed to them. If. they dont advertise the correct price by Tues morning then I would employ another EA. As for selling it yourself, this is not a great idea......you dont want the hassle being a landlord of this property, do you really want the hassle of setting up viewings etc?
If you do REALLY want to offload your property, reduce your price to 1.4m (you are hardly on the breadline, even with being separated and having excessive creche fees) and hopefully someone will take it off your hands.
 
What exactly is it you're looking for posting on this site? You said you had 2 offers already, just sell the thing. The world doesn't owe you the price you want to sell it at, it's a market and from your thread history you've dilly dallied so long that you're probably down 10% already from the price you would have got a few months ago.
 
elainem said:
In relation to the price, I have reduced the price. However, I note that the estate agent has not followed my request to do so on the website.
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Sounds like your EA needs a kick in the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language then.
 
Hi Elainem! Your last post clarified this for me. Like many responders I could not understand why you don't take the practical advice being given. However your family history and relationships - and your own investment of energy and care - are in the mix. This isn't just a commercial question (when is it ever ).

Perhaps others are made uncomfortable by your situation which evokes the Ancient Mariner who wandered the world telling of his burden and its paralysing effects.

You are trying to identify the albatross. Responses so far assure you the albatross is your 'over-exposure to property'. That is true. However the albatross also comprises yours and your families' long and complex emotional investment in this property. Letting go of it, and the manner and time at which you let go of it, are part of a grieving (and celebrating!) process.

On the one hand financial swings and roundabouts present and prevent closure. All you can do is be as fully informed as possible and make a decision in the light of that knowledge. It may work out advantageously; it may not.

On the other hand the deep connection and complex history you have with this house needs a different approach and time-scale and cannot be reduced to that of the practical or financial.

In my view when the second is addressed and processed you will be able to decide clearly and prudently on disposal (or not!) of the property.

Stop panicking! It's OK (really!)
 
Why bring Coleridge into it? Surely his 'mariner' being derided in 'Only Fools' is enough to have him spinning in his grave. I'm beginning to shift towards Maria's thinking. A little more Freud and less money market puppetry.
 
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