State benefit payment at 65

Peterd said:
Just reference my last post re 65 benefit payment. I was talking to a lady in my local intreo office and she told me i didnt qualify for this payment because i didnt have 13 paid contributions in both years 2020 and 2021 only in 2020. I clearly misread the qualifying requirements as I took the meaning of the two years before the governing year to be either and not both. Anyone else any thoughts on this. Thanks
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As usual the wording is confusing.

I have up to now interpreted this as 13 paid in any one of the three seperate years listed.

But now I am wondering what the statement actually means.

Does any one of the following years actually refer to the individual three seperate periods of one year. Or does it refer to either of the two listed periods.

One period of two years (24 months) and one period of 1 year (12 months)

The best I can figure is, if it refers to three seperate years, then 13 paid in any one of these years should allow a person to qualify.

If it refers to any of the two periods of time listed then a person should qualify if they have 13 paid in the period of 24 months.

If this is the case then the 13 paid spans 24 months and could actually be spread into the two separate years. (7 in one calender year and 6 in the next calender year for instance)

Either way I reckon she must be mistaken.



The guidelines are worded as below....

If a person does not have 13 paid contributions in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) he/she must have the 13 contributions paid in any one of the following years:
  • The two tax years before the relevant tax year
  • The last complete tax year



This is the wording from Citizens Advice.......

*If you do not have 13 paid contributions in the relevant tax year, you must have paid 13 contributions in any of the following years:

  • The 2 tax years before the relevant tax year
  • The last complete tax year
  • The current tax year.

Any of the years or time periods of years ?
Any time period could contain one or more years.
Any year is a singular year.

In the qualification rules for Jobseekers Benefit the 13 paid Prsi contributions are required to be in a period of one tax year.
 
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S class said:
As usual the wording is confusing.

I have up to now interpreted this as 13 paid in any one of the three seperate years listed.

But now I am wondering what the statement actually means.

Does any one of the following years actually refer to the individual three seperate periods of one year. Or does it refer to either of the two listed periods.

One period of two years (24 months) and one period of 1 year (12 months)

The best I can figure is, if it refers to three seperate years, then 13 paid in any one of these years should allow a person to qualify.

If it refers to any of the two periods of time listed then a person should qualify if they have 13 paid in the period of 24 months.

If this is the case then the 13 paid spans 24 months and could actually be spread into the two separate years. (7 in one calender year and 6 in the next calender year for instance)

Either way I reckon she must be mistaken.



The guidelines are worded as below....

If a person does not have 13 paid contributions in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) he/she must have the 13 contributions paid in any one of the following years:
  • The two tax years before the relevant tax year
  • The last complete tax year



This is the wording from Citizens Advice.......

*If you do not have 13 paid contributions in the relevant tax year, you must have paid 13 contributions in any of the following years:

  • The 2 tax years before the relevant tax year
  • The last complete tax year
  • The current tax year.

Any of the years or time periods of years ?
Any time period could contain one or more years.
Any year is a singular year.

In the qualification rules for Jobseekers Benefit the 13 paid Prsi contributions are required to be in a period of one tax year.
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Yes I agree I think she is mistaken because on the official government website it states a requirement of 13 paid contributions with three options where I think she may have erred is by looking at the OR option if I didn't satisfy any of these three options which requires 26 paid contributions in two different years if you check out the mygov website you will see exactly what I mean
 
Peterd said:
Yes I agree I think she is mistaken because on the official government website it states a requirement of 13 paid contributions with three options where I think she may have erred is by looking at the OR option if I didn't satisfy any of these three options which requires 26 paid contributions in two different years if you check out the mygov website you will see exactly what I mean
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Yes I think this is correct. I have given this information to a few other posters and I hope I haven't mislead them.
 
Just a further update to my benefit at 65 query. I went up to my local social welfare and citizens advice centre on Monday last. They both informed me that I will qualify as the 13 paid prsi contributions required if you don't have them in your governing contribution year which in my case is 2022 can be in either of the two previous years 2020 or 2021 I have the required amount in 2020. I think the lady in the intreo centre last week although very helpful wasn't really very familiar with this benefit as she had to keep consulting an information booklet. So basically to simplify things 63 is your governing year and 61 or 62 will suffice for 13 paid credits if you need them. I'm just laying it all out simplified if anyone else is in the same position as myself. Please feel free to comment thanks
 
Frankly it's a disgrace that the rules around the Over 65 Benefit payment, which is barely 3 years in existence, have been allowed to become so convoluted. Little wonder that there is confusion when there are differences in the requirements on this page and this page, both from the DSP section of gov.ie. And the requirements set out on Citizens Information are different again. And my experience of requesting clarification regarding my entitlement was the same as yours. Helpful staff that were out of their depth. I feel really sorry for those who are less confident and less able to stick up for themselves. Had I not been pretty self assured I would have been denied this payment, to which I was fully entitled. As a department, the DSP in my experience have a very poor and misguided attitude, seeing their role as being to deny applicants payments for any possible reason rather than working proactively to assist people in accessing their entitlements. Their communications skills are also woeful.
 
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Admittedly, I am a very straight forward case having worked many years up until the week before my recent 65th birthday.

I have a verified MyGoveID account so I could apply on line, it took about 2 minutes. Two days later I was approved and the following week the first payment arrived in my account. I did not have to speak to anyone or send in anything. It could not have been easier.
 
My experience of dealing with DSP is that they operate strictly to the rules.
If you meet the rules you qualify, if you don't you will not qualify.

However as you state the rules are difficult to understand and I have come across DSP staff who have been mistaken in their interpretation.
They were not deliberately trying to avoid awarding a benefit. When I explained their error they were happy to be corrected.

It certainly pays to understand the rules. I would have lost out being awarded a benefit, if I had taken the opinion of DSP staff as always correct.


There is a new layer of complication added for over 66 year olds.

They can continue to claim Jobseekers Benefit, but are no longer eligible to be awarded credits.
They could be still liable to pay prsi up to age 70.
They are not allowed to pay voluntary prsi.
 
Des Pondent said:
Admittedly, I am a very straight forward case having worked many years up until the week before my recent 65th birthday.

I have a verified MyGoveID account so I could apply on line, it took about 2 minutes. Two days later I was approved and the following week the first payment arrived in my account. I did not have to speak to anyone or send in anything. It could not have been easier.
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The online application for Jobseekers Benefit and BP65 is excellent and the response time is a few days.
They are currently setting up an online application for the State Pension.
 
Who really comes up with these qualifying rules. Probably people who will never need to avail of those same benefits
 
Freelance said:
Frankly it's a disgrace that the rules around the Over 65 Benefit payment, which is barely 3 years in existence, have been allowed to become so convoluted. Little wonder that there is confusion when there are differences in the requirements on this page and this page, both from the DSP section of gov.ie. And the requirements set out on Citizens Information are different again. And my experience of requesting clarification regarding my entitlement was the same as yours. Helpful staff that were out of their depth. I feel really sorry for those who are less confident and less able to stick up for themselves. Had I not been pretty self assured I would have been denied this payment, to which I was fully entitled. As a department, the DSP in my experience have a very poor and misguided attitude, seeing their role as being to deny applicants payments for any possible reason rather than working proactively to assist people in accessing their entitlements. Their communications skills are also woeful.
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This is also anti-customer (from DSPs BP65 Guidelines)...
"The onus is on the customer to prove entitlement to BP65 and to produce any evidence reasonably required."

So, the applicant has to interpret the guidelines correctly, which is unfair to many who may not even have access to the information.
 
Just idly checking the Ops Guidelines to check if my plans to qualify for this Over 65 Benefit Payment remain on track.

I’m aged 60 now and will attain the required age for the Over 65 Benefit Payment in 2029. The GCY (governing contribution year) will be 2027. My plan is to work part-time in 2025 and pay a minimum of 13 class A stamps that year. I may not work again after that.

According to the posts here I think I will qualify. (I meet the FIRST Contribution Condition).

What gives me pause is the following extract from the Ops Guidelines regarding the SECOND Contribution Condition.

I think GCY is clearly explained (ie 2027), I think I understand the “last complete tax year” to be 2028 and the “current tax year” to be 2029.

But what does “relevant tax year” mean and what year is it in my timeline? Maybe it means two years before GCY ie 2025 but if so why do the Ops Guidelines use GCY in one section and “relevant tax year” in another?


Second Contribution Condition
A person must have at least 39 reckonable contributions paid or credited in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) and 13 of these contributions must be paid
OR
A person must have at least 26 reckonable contributions paid in both the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) and the year immediately preceding the GCY.
If a person does not have 13 paid contributions in the Governing Contribution Year (GCY) they must have the 13 contributions paid in any one of the following years:
The two tax years before the relevant tax year
The last complete tax year
Or
The current tax year
The benefit and contribution year runs from 01 January to 31 December. The Governing Contribution Year (GCY) is the second last complete contribution year before the benefit year in which the claim is made. The GCY for claims in 2021 is 2019.

Operational Guidelines: Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds

www.gov.ie www.gov.ie
 
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S class said:
Relevant year is the same year as governing year.
This is another example of confusing language used by DSP.
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Thanks S Class. I thought you might have a clear opinion.

Another question if you don't mind. Once I qualify for this benefit payment, in my case at age 61, is this "locked in" or can I inadvertently dis-qualify myself again afterwards? Eg if I earned more than €7500 in rental income from age 62 onwards?
 
This is another example of confusing language used by DSP.
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I found some DSP language that I could make no sense of a while ago.

I put the text into ChatGPT and asked “Does this mean A or B?”

“It means A and B” was the reply!
 
Kev1964 said:
Once I qualify for this benefit payment, in my case at age 61, is this "locked in" or can I inadvertently dis-qualify myself again afterwards? Eg if I earned more than €7500 in rental income from age 62 onwards?
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Yes, if you have rental income over 7500 euro when you apply you would disqualify yourself.
If you reckon you will be in this position you can use this plan.
I got Jobseekers benefit with well over 7500 euro in investment income.
The trick is to make the investment income subsidiary income.

Can a person with rental or investment income over 7500 euro per year qualify for 65s benefit ?

No. However they could qualify for Jobseekers benefit at age 65. Basically the subsidiary employment rules for Jobseekers benefit are different to those for 65s benefit. Employment 1. PAYE employment Employment 2. Rental or investment income over 7000 euro per year. To qualify...
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
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Hi I won’t have 13 paid contributions in the qualifying years, if I paid voluntary contributions would this qualify for the 65 benefit payment, thanks
 
Voluntary contributions won't allow you qualify.
You need to get 13 class A paid contributions from employment.
You only need to earn 38 euro per per week for 13 weeks.
3 hours at minimum wage will get you there.
If you are unable to get this employment you could get a family member or friend to register as an employer and employ you for household work or childminder or gardening etc.
Check out 'family employment' and 'registering as an employer' on revenue .ie
 
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S class said:
Yes, if you have rental income over 7500 euro when you apply you would disqualify yourself.
If you reckon you will be in this position you can use this plan.
I got Jobseekers benefit with well over 7500 euro in investment income.
The trick is to make the investment income subsidiary income.

Can a person with rental or investment income over 7500 euro per year qualify for 65s benefit ?

No. However they could qualify for Jobseekers benefit at age 65. Basically the subsidiary employment rules for Jobseekers benefit are different to those for 65s benefit. Employment 1. PAYE employment Employment 2. Rental or investment income over 7000 euro per year. To qualify...
www.askaboutmoney.com
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Hi again S Class.

With some better research of the income tax system I think it's advisable to split potential rental income of €20k PA gross as follows: €18k to my wife and €2k to myself.

I will have two other sources of income (pensions) which are exempt from PRSI.

In the above circumstances and assuming I earn 13 paid class A contributions in my 61st year, do you think I will qualify for the Over 65 payment?

If the answer is yes is it possible to share the source of your conclusion? Thanks in advance.
 
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