"Southern Ireland"

ClubMan said:
See here.
Whatever about being a theocracy in practice the UK is certainly a sectarian and anti-secular state in that it has an official state sanctioned established (probably some tautology there but not to worry...) church. What's interesting is that many of the non established religious groupings are keen that the CoE is not removed as the established church in case it leads to secularisation of the state and sidelining of religious groups/churches from matters of state.
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Iran is an interesting case, their Supreme leader decides who can run for office but he is appointed by the guardian council who are themselves elected by the people so from a constitutional point of view it is less of a theocracy than the UK. It also has a politically irreconcilable constitution but that's a different matter. There was an excellent article in the New York Times recently about it.
Does anyone know if the head of state (Monarch) in the UK still promises to oppress the evil of Catholicism in his or her coronation oath?

TarfHead said:
One ball I've tried (unsuccessfully) to hop with English folk is to ask what is it about them that is British, as distinct from English, i.e. where does their 'Englishness' stop and their 'Britishness' start ? I also tried to advance a theory, in a pub in Edinburgh, that there was no such thing as Scotland, that they were all English and that Scotland was just a tourism marketing concept.
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Most of the myths and legends that are considered English such as the Arthurian legends are in fact Cornish or Welsh so it could be contended that the cultural origins of Britain are in not English at all.
 
If I recall correctly the use of Eire got up the nose of a judge in the past too. I thought I read many years ago that a UK extradition warrant was thrown out for using Eire and that the Judge indicated Eire was only correct if the document was in Irish, for a document in English the correct name of the country was Ireland.

The only supporting link I can find alludes to an (unnamed) Supreme Court judge expressing his annoyance at the practice but no indication if it resulted in the case being chucked out.

http://www.emigrant.ie/article.asp?iCategoryID=200&iArticleID=38184
 
dam099 said:
the Judge indicated Eire was only correct if the document was in Irish, for a document in English the correct name of the country was Ireland.
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Does this mean that article 4 of the constitution which uses both Éire and Ireland is incorrect? Or perhaps you are simply mistaken in your recollections?

Purple said:
Does anyone know if the head of state (Monarch) in the UK still promises to oppress the evil of Catholicism in his or her coronation oath?
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For what it's worth there's nothing about it here anyway.
 
ClubMan said:
For what it's worth there's nothing about it here anyway.
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Have a look at PDF. While the oath is not expressly anti Catholic it looks like it is designed with their dpecific exclusion in mind.
It seems a bit nuts that a constitution that is secular in practice can be built on such bigoted crap.
 
Glenbhoy said:
Most of us nordies call ye free staters 'Mexicans' ye know.
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know that dundalk was referred to on the bbc as ' el paso'
but then south armagh is know as bandit country.
which is where I am going shortly to get some home heating oil.
 
Purple said:
Have a look at PDF. While the oath is not expressly anti Catholic it looks like it is designed with their dpecific exclusion in mind.
It seems a bit nuts that a constitution that is secular in practice can be built on such bigoted crap.
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What constitution? The UK doesn't have one - at least in writing whatever about through royal and legislative precedent.
 
ClubMan said:
What constitution? The UK doesn't have one - at least in writing whatever about through royal and legislative precedent.
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They don't have a written or sovern constitution but they do have one, as you point out, through legislative precedent. See here for details.
 
Back in the 1980's and my C.B. Radio days, despite giving out my address correctly to People in England they would always put N. Ireland on the envelope.
 
Well, I get a magazine posted from London, with the last line reading 'Irish Republic'. Can an adjective be used to describe a republic? :confused:
 
Deirdra said:
Can an adjective be used to describe a republic? :confused:
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Bob Geldof used a piece of fruit to describe the republic once ( banana republic ). At least we do not have to call it the Peoples Socialist Republic of Ireland....not yet anyway.
 
ClubMan said:
Does this mean that article 4 of the constitution which uses both Éire and Ireland is incorrect? Or perhaps you are simply mistaken in your recollections?
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Perhaps though the article I quoted does at least back it up partially to the extent that the judge at least had an issue with it (of course the article could be wrong too I'd prefer see the court transcripts for a definitive answer). There was the same year as the article refers to where the Judge stated a case would be thrown out for using "Republic of Ireland" (this piece does not make it clear what would happen if Eire was used) perhaps this is what the article refers to.

The article of the constitution you quote does indeed use both terms but explicitly says the name of the state is Eire or in the English language Ireland. In the context of the paragraph could that not imply that Eire is therefore the Irish language name and that the use of Eire in the English language translation is for informational purposes? I'm not a constitutional lawyer so maybe I'm reading too much into it.
 
Deirdra said:
Can an adjective be used to describe a republic? :confused:
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Sure, an adjective can be used to describe a republic.

from wiki:

Since the term republic is so vague by itself, many states felt it necessary to add additional qualifiers in order to clarify what kind of republics they claim to be. Here is a list of such qualifiers and variations on the term "republic":
  • Constitutional republic - A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens. In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers are separated into distinct branches so that no individual or group has absolute power and the power of the majority of the population is checked by only allowing them to elect representatives. The fact that a constitution exists that limits the government's power, makes the state constitutional. That the head(s) of state and other officials are chosen by election, rather than inheriting their positions, and that their decisions are subject to judicial review makes a state republican.
  • Federal republic, confederation or federation - a federal union of states with a republican form of government. Examples include Austria, Brazil, Germany, India, the USA, Russia and Switzerland.
  • Islamic Republic - Countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran are republics governed in accordance with Islamic law. (Note: Turkey is a distinct exception and is not included in this list; while the population is predominantly Muslim, the state is a staunchly secular republic.)
  • Arab Republic - for example, Syria its name reflecting its theoretically pan-Arab Ba'athist government.
  • People's Republic - Countries like China, North Korea are meant to be governed for and by the people, but generally without direct elections. Thus, they use the term People's Republic, which was shared by many past Communist states.
  • Democratic Republic - Tends to be used by countries who have a particular desire to emphasize their claim to be democratic; these are typically Communist states and/or ex-colonies. Examples include the German Democratic Republic (no longer in existence) and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
  • Commonwealth (Rzeczpospolita) - Both words (English and Polish) are derived from the Latin word res publica (literally "common affairs"). Used in Poland for the current Republic of Poland, and historical Nobles' Rzeczpospolita.
  • Venezuela has adopted since the adoption of the 1999 constitution the title of Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.
  • Other modifiers are rooted in tradition and history and usually have no real political meaning. San Marino, for instance, is the "Most Serene Republic" while Uruguay is the "Eastern Republic".
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In particular I like the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela!
 
Thanks bond-007 - I wonder if Niall Ferguson should be reminded that things changed in 1922. One would have thought that an historian would have kept up to date, unless that is a contradiction in terms!
 
There is no Celtic period in Irish history. There was no mass migration of Celts to Ireland, it's a myth.
"Irish" and "Ireland" are also recent inventions. Descendants of those that built Newgrange probably
have fair claim on being the real native Irish. The more of the original genetic material you have
the more Irish you are, by that measure.

http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/2005/12/y-chromosome-variation-and-irish.html

If there was anyone here before the Ice age they were presumably driven out by that extended cold snap.
 
remember at school the teacher banging on about some tribe call the 'tuath na danann' or something like it anyway. maybe they were irish?
or was it the old 'fir bolgs' ? obviously they died out as there was no 'mna bolgs' :D
 
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