Solictor 'forgot' to charge us stamp duty on mortgage?

R

roxy

Registered User
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407
Hi,

We have recently bought a house for 300k. We are both FTB.

We got a quote from solictor for a total of €2308 and ensured by them that this would be the full total, no other charges on top. That was fine, we got our keys 2 weeks ago and he returned the balance of our booking deposit less their fee of €2308. Yesterday he calls my partner up, and says 'sorry, but forgot to charge you the stamp duty of €300 so if you can send it in ?' Is this normal? Should it have been included in original outlay or does everyone do it like this? Sorry about all the questions, hope someone can explain for me.

Roxy
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Yes it should have been in the outlay . If they quoted you in full including outlay , before you accepted their price, they have no comeback .
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Ah 2pack, I knew you would be my words of wisdom at some stage!
I don't have the original quote in writing though, what should I say to him?
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

It was a mistake. You must have taken a 100% mortgage and the E300 sounds like the stamp duty on the mortgage. If you want to, you can stick to your guns and refuse to pay it on a point of principle. See what happens.

2 pack says, "If they quoted you in full including outlay , before you accepted their price, they have no comeback".

I don't agree - it depends on the circumstances. I think you should pay it.

mf
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

roxy said:
Ah 2pack, I knew you would be my words of wisdom at some stage!
I don't have the original quote in writing though, what should I say to him?
Click to expand...

Stamp duty is not in their fees. If you are happy with your solicitor's work and they have genuinely made a mistake (which is most likely to be the case) then the right thing is to pay. If you were in their position, what would you do?
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

mf1 said:
It was a mistake. You must have taken a 100% mortgage and the E300 sounds like the stamp duty on the mortgage. If you want to, you can stick to your guns and refuse to pay it on a point of principle. See what happens.

2 pack says, "If they quoted you in full including outlay , before you accepted their price, they have no comeback".

I don't agree - it depends on the circumstances. I think you should pay it.

mf
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Yes, it was 100%. What could happen if we don't pay? I don't mind paying if its the norm, its the fact that he never told us about it in the original quote. €300 is €300 at the end of the day.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Stamp duty is technically not an outlay-it is a tax payable to the State. The difference between outlay and the stamp duty is that outlay are costs they pay on your behalf (searches, overheads etc), whereas stamp duty on the mortgage is a tax that collect on behalf of the State.

This is actually a tax you owe the State and not the solicitor as such, so I don't think you have any choice but to pay it. I'm not sure if stamp duty is required to be included in the S.86 (correct??) letter.

I received two quotes from solicitors yesterday, both included outlay, but neither included stamp duty on the mortgage deed.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

mf1 said:
It was a mistake. You must have taken a 100% mortgage and the E300 sounds like the stamp duty on the mortgage. If you want to, you can stick to your guns and refuse to pay it on a point of principle. See what happens.
Click to expand...
Thats what I think it is too. Outlays include the costs of stamping and registering mortgages as a standard outlay AFAIK.

2 pack says, "If they quoted you in full including outlay , before you accepted their price, they have no comeback".

I don't agree - it depends on the circumstances. I think you should pay it.
Click to expand...
Are you a solicitor mf1 :D ??? I stand by my words precisely as stated.

They may have made an honest mistake when they quoted for the business but I never met a solicitor who could not add up money .

in full including outlay is

all work

outlays

and VAT

The Stamp Duty is an Outlay , they may have hedged and said Outlays apart from Stamping The Mortgage but in English ALL means ALL . A Solicitor is an agent of the revenue and obliged to collect and forward stamp duty to the revenue.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Diziet said:
Stamp duty is not in their fees. If you are happy with your solicitor's work and they have genuinely made a mistake (which is most likely to be the case) then the right thing is to pay. If you were in their position, what would you do?
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TBH, I wasn't happy with him at all, but we were stuck with him once he had our contracts, but sure that's neither here nor there.

Well if I was in his position I wouldn't make a mistake like that, if this is normal then surely he's charging and quoting FTB's on it all the time? Just seems like a big thing to forget,if it was say admin charges or something then maybe, but stamp duty?
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

If you don't pay then you have an outstanding tax (stamp duty) liability with Revenue which would not be a good situation. Double check the details and ask your solicitor for clarification about the seeming mistake. Find the written quote if you can and you want to argue your case about being mislead.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

roxy said:
if this is normal then surely he's charging and quoting FTB's on it all the time?
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Not all buyers will be liable for SD on the purchase or the mortgage - depends on circumstances. It could well be an honest mistake. Ask them how/why it happened.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

ClubMan said:
If you don't pay then you have an outstanding tax (stamp duty) liability with Revenue which would not be a good situation.
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Your solicitor has an even bigger problem , they are obliged to collect it for the Revenue ....whether you pay or not :D .

Not even quoting for it is pretty egregious IMO .
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Yes the solicitor is at fault but if the stamp duty bill remains unpaid then surely Revenue could just bill the individual?
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

ClubMan said:
Yes the solicitor is at fault but if the stamp duty bill remains unpaid then surely Revenue could just bill the individual?
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Nope. Revenue bills solicitor only. I would ask for details of the agreed quote in writing from that solicitor and go to the Law Society if there is any more crap.

They are avoiding writing anything, most unuuuuuuuuusual non ???

In normal english .

ALL means ALL
FULL means FULL

(mf1, are you a solicitor ?? pls disclose )
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

Fair enough. As far as I know mf1 is a solicitor and has never made any secret of this in other threads.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

ClubMan said:
As far as I know mf1 is a solicitor
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I know but I wanted FULL DISCLOSURE for the benefit of the person who started this thread about LACK OF FULL DISCLOSURE by Solicitors .
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

hi. we just got our keys 3 wks ago. house was 350 k & solicitor fees were 2439. this included the stamp duty of 300 euro. i would ask ur solicitor to send you out a detailed breakdown of his fees. it seems like he has charged you enough already w/out u having to pay him more. dont pay until he sends u the breakdown for fees paid to date.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

2Pack said:
Are you a solicitor mf1 :D ???


in full including outlay is

all work

outlays

and VAT

.... in English ALL means ALL .
Click to expand...

Are you a teacher 2Pack :D ???


Btw, all the above is predicated on a very important word: if the quote was stated as being "in full including outlay" (in practice, most quotes are not stated in this way).

2Pack said:
I wanted FULL DISCLOSURE for the benefit of the person who started this thread about LACK OF FULL DISCLOSURE by Solicitors.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you are getting at here. Can you please explain?
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

ubiquitous said:
Are you a teacher 2Pack :D ???
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No! :D .

If I ask for a full quote for a kitchen I get a full quote for a kitchen. Solicitors are no different from kitchen installers !

Again I say , all is all and full is full.
 
Re: Solictor 'forgot' to charge us?

CCOVICH said:
Stamp duty is technically not an outlay-it is a tax payable to the State. The difference between outlay and the stamp duty is that outlay are costs they pay on your behalf (searches, overheads etc), whereas stamp duty on the mortgage is a tax that collect on behalf of the State.

This is actually a tax you owe the State and not the solicitor as such, so I don't think you have any choice but to pay it. I'm not sure if stamp duty is required to be included in the S.86 (correct??) letter.

I received two quotes from solicitors yesterday, both included outlay, but neither included stamp duty on the mortgage deed.
Click to expand...

What's the S.86 letter?
 
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