Solicitor who charged €246 for storing a will told to refund it by the LSRA

[Brendan Burgess]

Legal Services Regulatory Authority Quango

Agreed.

Much better to let the Law Society regulate themselves.

And the Central Bank does a terrible job regulating the banks. So why not let the Banking and Payments Federation regulate them instead?

Brendan

 

[Peanuts20]

Rather then focusing on one minor complaint, perhaps people should be slightly more alarmed at the 13 complaints of alleged misconduct which were referred to the Legal practitioners disciplinary tribunal.

LSRA is on course to receive over a thousand complaints in a full year. And yet some people suggest that lawyers should regulate themselves. Bizarre

 

[JimmyB99]

The report quoted by Brendan is itself ample evidence that the LSRA claimant in this case wanted a will storage service for

Is that the only way to interpret what happened? If not, why do you presented as the only interpretation?

 

[T McGibney]

Is that the only way to interpret what happened? If not, why do you presented as the only interpretation?

It's probably not the only possible interpretation, and I never claimed that it was, but I submit that it's an eminently reasonable one.

 

[JimmyB99]

Not really but let's leave it at that.

 

[Salvadore]

It was still a small issue. The primary roles of the LSRA are to ensure that there are processes in place to confront and resolve cases of malpractice within the legal profession and also to safeguard money held on client accounts maintained by solicitors.

It is, again, not to referee petty disputes like this.

I’m not so sure it’s small beer.

If you can get away with charging €246 for storing a will, you’re unlikely to stop there.

 

[Marsupial]

Again, I'd be interested if you have any evidence to support that comment.

It seems certain posters are happy to simply make things up!

Indeed it does. But you'll be pleased to know that I have no intention of sinking to their level.

 

[Salvadore]

Is it necessary to have a will stored with a solicitor or can you simply bring it home?

 

[T McGibney]

Is it necessary to have a will stored with a solicitor or can you simply bring it home?

Good luck minding it there for perhaps dozens of years, particularly if at any stage you suffer a misfortune of a fire, flood, burglary or eventual loss of memory or critical faculties.

 

[Salvadore]

Good luck minding it there for perhaps dozens of years, particularly if at any stage you suffer a misfortune of a fire, flood, burglary or eventual loss of memory or critical faculties.

Surely the solicitor is exposed to similar risks????

 

[T McGibney]

Surely the solicitor is exposed to similar risks????

Ah come on!

They're expected as a matter of duty to have appropriate secure, fire- and flood-resistant safes, and appropriate systems for long-term handling of valuable documents etc. Rusty biscuit tins and the like don't count.

 

[Salvadore]

They're expected as a matter of duty to have appropriate secure, fire- and flood-resistant safes, and appropriate systems for long-term handling of valuable documents etc

Gosh. No wonder it’s so expensive

 

[Right Winger]

Let's break this down into its component parts.
We are familiar with the concept of a loss-leader as practiced by supermarkets and other retail outlets. A product is offered at or below cost in the expectation that the customer will be impressed enough to purchase further goods. Or if not exactly impressed, then prone to inertial selling perhaps. Fair enough - normal commercial practice - the customer is free to buy or not to buy as s/he sees fit.

Equally many solicitors offer low priced will drafting as a loss-leader hoping to get more lucrative business in due course. Again, entirely fair and reasonable IF the customer has a choice as to whether or not to place that business with the solicitor. Once the solicitor gets stroppy and imposes arbitrary financial penalties for taking the business elsewhere, we've got a whole different situation. This leaves a bad taste and smacks of an arrogant attitude and very poor customer focus. I, for one, would run a mile from ANY service provider that behaved like this, yet alone a solicitor, who should be above reproach in terms of fiduciary duty to the customer.

A solicitor has several good options when it comes to drafting a will:
- charge an appropriate fee based on time, level of complexity, etc, including an annual storage charge of the client so desires.
- charge a heavily discounted fee as a loss-leader and hope to get further business. If the business doesn't materialize, take the loss-leader on the chin. It's like advertising expenditure that doesn't bring in business - you don't know in advance which ads will work, some will, some won't, but on balance you expect to gain.

But what isn't a good option is to charge a heavily discounted fee and then retrospectively whack it up when the extra business doesn't materialize. Especially when the person with whom the solicitor allegedly had an arrangement for doing the probate work is now dead and can't by definition verify the arrangement!

To go back to the supermarket analogy, it'd be like popping in for your 49c fruit and veggie offers and then being told you have to pay €200 to retrieve your car from the car park because your purchases were heavily discounted in the expectation that you would fill your trolley while you were there.

 

[RonnieShinbal88]

Or in one line: You can't charge for a BOGOF because the customer bogs off.

 

[JimmyB99]

Well done Right Winger for taking the time to explain that so well. Excellent post.

 

[T McGibney]

There will be some craic on a day to come when a solicitor is found to have lost a customer's will and later ducks responsibility for their co'ckup, on the basis that the £50 the deceased paid their predecessor solicitor for drafting the will 45 years previously could not have been reasonably expected to cover the costs of its safe storage in the interim and that no liability should apply to a service of that nature if provided for free.

 

[Right Winger]

There will be some craic on a day to come when a solicitor is found to have lost a customer's will and later ducks responsibility for their co'ckup, on the basis that the £50 the deceased paid their predecessor solicitor for drafting the will 45 years previously could not have been reasonably expected to cover the costs of its safe storage in the interim and that no liability should apply to a service of that nature if provided for free.

Point taken, but what's wrong with transparency and professionalism about the fee to be charged? If it includes storage, say so, and charge appropriately. If it doesn't, advise client in writing of need to store will safely. Or obtain written client consent to pay a rolled-up storage fee out of the estate in due course. Written consent being important of course as the client will then be dead!

 

[Marsupial]

"the solicitor had sought to justify the charge on the basis that the original €80 charge for making the will was heavily discounted in the expectation the firm would be administering the estate. The solicitor said this was explained to the deceased, although there was no evidence provided to support the claim."

I suppose that the moral of this shabby saga is always to charge the client full whack for drafting a will at the time it is drawn up, on the basis that their dependants may prove to be untrustworthy and that the quango will always side with the complainant.

 

[T McGibney]

Point taken, but what's wrong with transparency and professionalism about the fee to be charged? If it includes storage, say so, and charge appropriately. If it doesn't, advise client in writing of need to store will safely. Or obtain written client consent to pay a rolled-up storage fee out of the estate in due course. Written consent being important of course as the client will then be dead!

I agree. The smarter solicitors no doubt already have a line or two in their countersigned engagement letters ensuring the personal representatives of the deceased will in due course be soaked for cumulative storage fees a lot more than €200 plus VAT if they wish to have their will processed by a different solicitor.

 

[Up Rovers]

This subject has been discussed previously here on AAM regarding fees, solicitors and release of Wills.

A similar bone of contention with me is organisations offering the free Will service but at the same time putting in a stipulation that a donation must be in the Will. If a donation of €500 must be made then how can it be called a free service

17. Do I need to pay to use the DSPCA's free Will service?​

Our advisors will draft up your document with you free of charge, you do not need to pay. As mentioned above they will help you choose the people, family members and causes that are important to you that you would like to be in your Will. They will also help you decide on an executor of your Will (someone of sound mind and can be your spouse, your child, a friend). When you are deceased you can rest assured that everything has been taken care of for you. All we ask is that you leave a bequest/donation to the DPSCA in your Will to value of no less than €500.