Ah don't worry, there will always be some rich person earning over 75k that we can tax some more to pay for things...You just relax and don't get stressed. Actually have a medical card as well. Sure life is hard....
Social Housing - Creating a monster
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Ah don't worry, there will always be some rich person earning over 75k that we can tax some more to pay for things...You just relax and don't get stressed. Actually have a medical card as well. Sure life is hard....
TheBigShort
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No we didn't, we had terrific access to the Health Services, but then we bought into the notion that a private health service would be better. Now we have the worst of both worlds - increasing waiting lists in the public system and ever increasing costs to enter the private system.
Mutual exchange
swaps? You mean...nobody is...Because they don't have a policy to evict...haven't you been paying attention!
Same here, same in UK, what has this got to do with being compelled to leave a property as is being suggested here?
So more of this willingly stuff? Great...have they got a list of people they are going to evict?
This discussion has raised an interesting question (for me).
Should I as a matter of course be encouraging my children to register with the social housing services of our local authority as a life strategy on turning 18 ?
Given the level and increasing rate of price rises of housing and given that *one* of the criteria for selection appears to be time elapsed, is it not a useful hedge for ones' children ?
I just had a look at some of the social housing properties available from DLR CC and some are in very nice locations indeed !
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Should I as a matter of course be encouraging my children to register with the social housing services of our local authority as a life strategy on turning 18 ?
Given the level and increasing rate of price rises of housing and given that *one* of the criteria for selection appears to be time elapsed, is it not a useful hedge for ones' children ?
I just had a look at some of the social housing properties available from DLR CC and some are in very nice locations indeed !
[broken link removed]
No we didn't, we had terrific access to the Health Services, but then we bought into the notion that a private health service would be better. Now we have the worst of both worlds - increasing waiting lists in the public system and ever increasing costs to enter the private system.
Mutual exchange
Because they don't have a policy to evict...haven't you been paying attention!
Same here, same in UK, what has this got to do with being compelled to leave a property as is being suggested here?
So more of this willingly stuff? Great...have they got a list of people they are going to evict?
Yawn. The only person using emotionally charged words like 'eviction' is you.
So anyway, tell us more about the council estate with 15,000 houses that you lived beside....I really want to know where this was..
TheBigShort
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You may read the detail and think it supports your points, but nowhere does it advocate sleeping on the streets as you did, or any of the loony eviction policies spouted out here.
Your inherent prejudice is rising to the fore again Purple, just because they come from council estates does not make mean they are any more riff-raff than you.
More of those spare bedroom so
I'm sure there are spare rooms, some have been re-cycled housing new (working) families, some have been taken into private ownership by people who grew up in council estates, made a career for themselves and bought out the property from the council - imagine that!
Not under the new 5yr assessment regime its not. If you dare educate yourself and earn a decent living, you are out of there.
Yes me too, but you have weird assertion that the less dependent I come by educating and earning the more likely the State should threaten that independence by moving you to unknown locations without any consideration as to how that would effect your employment prospects.
Yep. Or else just encourage them to be unemployed or earn very little for a couple of years while on the housing list, get the house and then go and get large rewarding careers with 6 figure salaries. They will be sorted and never need to worry about expensive rent or mortgages. Their kids will be sorted (for when they break up with their boyfriends/girlfriends and want to move back home) and then when your kids die, your grandkids will get the house.....Sorted!!
TheBigShort
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Yawn. Because I'm the only one calling it out for what it is - are you going to tell me all along it was always intended that people would only have to leave their homes if they were willing to do so? Seriously??
Housing estates….my bad, typo. The area is Cabra, Dublin 7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabra,_Dublin
Wait until you read about all the riff-raff that emerged out of those council estates. Particularly this guy
"One of the world's most famous mathematicians, William Rowan Hamilton, who freed algebra from the commutative postulate of multiplication (that the order or sequence of factors does not determine the result) was associated with the area. There is a plaque in his honour at the Broom Bridge."
Well, show me where I used any word like evict or forcibly remove or anything similar. One example???
Mate, there you go making assumptions and judgements again. I come from a much worse area than Cabra so don't make me out to some sort of middle/upper class snob who looks down on people. You don't know me. You have never seen me. You have never heard me speak. You know nothing about me.....
TheBigShort
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Given the lack house building in the country
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0423/956446-goodbody-house-completions/
it might be an idea to advise them of their options. Private ownership and rental markets are getting beyond the reach working people and even people with decent incomes. This is reality, if your kids want a quality of life for all their efforts and there aren’t enough houses being built to accommodate the working population, its quite possible their only option to hope for a social house – that or they live with you forever (which is ok if you and they don’t mind that). Take this bit of advice;
except I'm sure if your kids avail of social housing they will be paying in their taxes and rent...just like other working people in social housing.
Exactly, being saying this since page 1
TheBigShort
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You are a peculiar sort Sunny
You haven't said it directly, nor has anyone else. But inferred in the expectation that people should 'move on' was that the current system of allowing people to move on, willingly, is insufficient. By that I understood we were talking about compulsory moves (or to put it another way - eviction). I think it was obvious that I was setting out my stall against compulsory evictions from very early on. If you, or anybody else never intended a policy of compulsory evictions why allow this to go on so long?
From page 3
But if you are confirming that eviction, or rather compulsion to move, is not your agenda ( and I accept that you do) then I gladly welcome that view. We may, if you choose, discuss other policies set in different countries to resolve their similar problems - including the UK bedroom tax, that has mixed results.
In the meantime, and what I find peculiar about you, is here is a list of my immediate responses to your quotes from the first few pages of this topic.
Funnily, for the most part I was in agreement with you - for some reason however you did not appear to pick up on that? As such, I held the view that were simply being coy about your real intentions.
I do have some proposals that I think may go towards resolving the housing crisis, but probably best for another thread at this point.
* Oh, typo on my part - Cabra 5,000 houses!
You haven't said it directly, nor has anyone else. But inferred in the expectation that people should 'move on' was that the current system of allowing people to move on, willingly, is insufficient. By that I understood we were talking about compulsory moves (or to put it another way - eviction). I think it was obvious that I was setting out my stall against compulsory evictions from very early on. If you, or anybody else never intended a policy of compulsory evictions why allow this to go on so long?
From page 3
But if you are confirming that eviction, or rather compulsion to move, is not your agenda ( and I accept that you do) then I gladly welcome that view. We may, if you choose, discuss other policies set in different countries to resolve their similar problems - including the UK bedroom tax, that has mixed results.
In the meantime, and what I find peculiar about you, is here is a list of my immediate responses to your quotes from the first few pages of this topic.
Funnily, for the most part I was in agreement with you - for some reason however you did not appear to pick up on that? As such, I held the view that were simply being coy about your real intentions.
I do have some proposals that I think may go towards resolving the housing crisis, but probably best for another thread at this point.
* Oh, typo on my part - Cabra 5,000 houses!
TheBigShort
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I would be opposed to it as it doesnt account for a persons means to pay, if they cant pay their benefits are cut.
Ive an idea, instead of penalising people for having the audacity to raise a family and who have now flown the nest (working, contributing to the economy, keeping property prices, pension funds ticking over) leaving a spare room or two. Why not offer a tax credit or rebate if they voluntarily move into a more suitable location?
Moving can be disruptive and costly, but at least with a tax credit it softens the financial upheaval. Not only that, people can move at a time of their own choosing - meaning they are more likely to be happier with the outcome (or at least only themselves to blame if the move turns sour for whatever reason).
That way the State can dismantle the Ministry of Housing Assessment and the 5yr Plan as advocated here. Stop interfering directly in peoples lives in such an authoritarian manner.
If people choose not to avail of the tax rebate, it probably indicates other extenuating circumstances that Big Brother could not possibly be aware of.
People could live in peace, as they see fit.
I would seriously consider it. Given the limits on income, the encroachment of the gig economy/contract work and the cost of housing...it's an insurance policy.
I'm originally from a similar area. I think your comment says more about your inherent prejudice than mine. Inverted snobbery is the worst kind.
Sure, but why would anyone bother paying for their own house when they can just get someone else to pay for it?
The population of Cabra is around 22,000. Of the many people I know in Carba most of them own their own home so if there's 5000 council houses there there must be a lot of empty rooms!
I know that people don't like to acknowledge that they are getting hand-outs from their fellow citizens, especially if they are doing okay financially but if you live in a council house then that's exactly what you are getting. What taxes you pay outside of that are irrelevant.
Just say thanks and acknowledge that you are just playing the system and not breaking any rules.
TheBigShort
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As my previous comment stated, many of the people I know in Cabra, grew up, got themselves jobs and bought private property – including in Cabra.
Its not a handout, it’s a public service. No different to putting your kids through the state school system, regardless of your income. No different receiving healthcare through the public system, regardless of your income. No different to availing of subsidised public transport, regardless of your income. No different to availing of all other public services from museums and art galleries, public playing pitches for sports clubs, to the justice and law & order services, to the emergency services…housing is simply a public need for everybody.
Its hard to know who you consider playing the system – the social houses tenants that are not working, or the ones who do work with low incomes unable to afford a place of their own? Or it is some cohort of tenants with decent incomes (paying taxes, paying rents) that can well afford a place of their own but choose to live in social housing?
You asked me to be more constructive.
Here is some data from CSO;
including out of total housing stock of 2m, 40% (740,000) are underoccupied. 10% are over occupied. LA housing stock is circa 145,000.
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/vac/
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/od/
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/od/
This is Dublin City Council guidelines on the letting of Council Housing Accommodation
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Housing/Home/Documents/HousingAllocationsScheme2013.pdf
Including this guideline for occupants with spare capacity;
Tenants Surrendering Larger Accommodation in High Demand Areas
Tenants prepared to surrender high demand accommodation which is larger than their needs.
Again, all voluntary, no evictions.
I think that's the nub of it; I fundamentally disagree that giving an adult a house for life is the same thing as providing funding to keep a child in school or a to keep a museum open.
In the same way I support subsidised public transport (within reason) but I don't think the State should give people cars.
TheBigShort
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You are of course entitled to that view - but what would you propose?
What just about everyone on this thread bar yourself is arguing - That people recognise that council/social housing is not supposed to be your permanent home. It should be a temporary measure that allows you to get yourself sorted. Once you are able to, you should be moving on and supporting yourself.
And if you are not able, despite your best efforts, then stay where you are... and if you have the means to provide your own housing then you should do so in order to free us the house and so enable the State to provide housing for another who can't provide it for themselves.
People who can't afford healthcare get a medical card but when they can afford to provide it they lose their medical card.
People with no job get the dole but then they get a job they no longer get the dole.
People who can't afford a home get one provided for them but when they can afford it they continue to have that home provided for them.