Case study Social housing application - means test

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Bocking14

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Having studied the eligibility criteria on the CIS website and the government rules, the means test is based solely on income (links below)

However, on the local authority website it asks for details of any house sale proceeds without specifying what the limits or thresholds are unlike the banded salary thresholds or county-specific monthly HAP limits.

The local authority cannot tell me what the sale proceeds limits are for a social housing application so I do not know whether I would be ruled ineligible due to this and don't want to go to the trouble of applying if I wouldn't be.

Would be grateful for any advice on this.

Applying for social housing

How to qualify for social housing support from a local authority or other provider.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie

 
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This is not strictly to do with the means test. As you have rightly pointed out, the means test relates to income only.

The examination of the sale reates to the distinct requirement that you cannot reasonably afford to provide housing yourself.

There is no guidance published by ANY council to assist people in determining what level of capital may be considered appropriate, but the approach adopted is similar. They examine the ownership of the property, and how it was disposed, eg. sale/gift/separation/divorce, and consider whether the disposal was reasonable in all the circumstances. If you have given the house away, or the proceeds you received are considered enough to purchase a suitable property, then they won't put you on the list. The official reason for refusal will be that they consider that you can reasonably provide accommodation from your own resources.

The problem however is when you have a significant amount of proceeds, but not enough to make a cash purchase for a new property. You might have enough for a significant deposit and be able to raise the rest easily enough with a small(ish) mortgage, or you may be able to rent for years with the proceeds. Most councils do not generally consider these positions as meaning that you can provide housing for yourself, but I have seen incidences when the relatively small proceeds of a sale (eg. 30k) have resulted in a refusal. The ones I have seen have related to the sale of foreign property.

Without detailed guidance available, the only way to proceed is to provide the information sought about the sale and how the proceeds were disposed, and see what they say. If they refuse on these grounds, they may be in trouble standing over any decision, as I suspect its not just a matter of them not publishing guidelines, I suspect they don't have detailed guidelines at all.
 
lughildanach said:
This is not strictly to do with the means test. As you have rightly pointed out, the means test relates to income only.

The examination of the sale reates to the distinct requirement that you cannot reasonably afford to provide housing yourself.

There is no guidance published by ANY council to assist people in determining what level of capital may be considered appropriate, but the approach adopted is similar. They examine the ownership of the property, and how it was disposed, eg. sale/gift/separation/divorce, and consider whether the disposal was reasonable in all the circumstances. If you have given the house away, or the proceeds you received are considered enough to purchase a suitable property, then they won't put you on the list. The official reason for refusal will be that they consider that you can reasonably provide accommodation from your own resources.

The problem however is when you have a significant amount of proceeds, but not enough to make a cash purchase for a new property. You might have enough for a significant deposit and be able to raise the rest easily enough with a small(ish) mortgage, or you may be able to rent for years with the proceeds. Most councils do not generally consider these positions as meaning that you can provide housing for yourself, but I have seen incidences when the relatively small proceeds of a sale (eg. 30k) have resulted in a refusal. The ones I have seen have related to the sale of foreign property.

Without detailed guidance available, the only way to proceed is to provide the information sought about the sale and how the proceeds were disposed, and see what they say. If they refuse on these grounds, they may be in trouble standing over any decision, as I suspect its not just a matter of them not publishing guidelines, I suspect they don't have detailed guidelines at all.
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I disagree that a means test is only about income - the means test for other social schemes such as Job Seekers Allowance, Disability Allowance or a Medical Card have clear formulas for calculating the value of capital . Therefore the applicant knows in advance whether they are eligible or not.

I read the criteria carefully in order to decide whether to apply only then to discover the requirement to disclose property sale details on the application form.

Without written rules it seems the local authorities can make arbitrary decisions based upon the personal opinion of the housing officer assessing the application!

I feel like applying without answering the question, which would probably result in a rejection, then appealing the decision. I suspect it is legally unsound for the government not to have stated rules on this matter.
 
Bocking14 said:
I disagree that a means test is only about income - the means test for other social schemes such as Job Seekers Allowance, Disability Allowance or a Medical Card have clear formulas for calculating the value of capital . Therefore the applicant knows in advance whether they are eligible or not.

I read the criteria carefully in order to decide whether to apply only then to discover the requirement to disclose property sale details on the application form.

Without written rules it seems the local authorities can make arbitrary decisions based upon the personal opinion of the housing officer assessing the application!

I feel like applying without answering the question, which would probably result in a rejection, then appealing the decision. I suspect it is legally unsound for the government not to have stated rules on this matter.
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I agree that the whole thing is not clear, and open to challenge. But from a practical point of view, why litigate when it is possible that you will be approved if you provide the information. If they refuse, you can always litigate. Unless you are in some way prejudiced by submitting the documentation/information at this stage?

I've seen lots of people approved for the housing list who do have significant proceeds from the sale of a property. If the proceeds are clearly sufficient to make a cash purchase for a property, it would be hard to argue that you met the legal requirement (ie, that you cannot provide accommodation from your own resources). If you have less than this, then it is arguable that you meet the legal requirement, so why not make the argument? If they don't accept your argument and have refused you on an arbitrary basis, then you may have a good legal challenge.
 
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lughildanach said:
I agree that the whole thing is not clear, and open to challenge. But from a practical point of view, why litigate when it is possible that you will be approved if you provide the information. If they refuse, you can always litigate. Unless you are in some way prejudiced by submitting the documentation/information at this stage?

I've seen lots of people approved for the housing list who do have significant proceeds from the sale of a property. If the proceeds are clearly sufficient to make a cash purchase for a property, it would be hard to argue that you met the legal requirement (ie, that you cannot provide accommodation from your own resources). If you have less than this, then it is arguable that you meet the legal requirement, so why not make the argument? If they don't accept your argument and have refused you on an arbitrary basis, then you may have a good legal challenge.
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I don't intend to litigate rather I'm frustrated there aren't clear rules, which is totally at odds with other social means tests.

I presume the price of any appropriately sized property which is on the market within the county council area within the house sale proceeds would meet the definition of being able to provide accommodation from your own resources?
 
Bocking14 said:
I don't intend to litigate rather I'm frustrated there aren't clear rules, which is totally at odds with other social means tests.

I presume the price of any appropriately sized property which is on the market within the county council area within the house sale proceeds would meet the definition of being able to provide accommodation from your own resources?
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As you say, without guidance it's difficult to say what they mean. But that definitely seems like a reasonable interpretation. I've seen councils take much more strict views and told people to exhaust 30k of capital on rent before they go on the list, and I've seen those with much more sail through without any difficulty. Or they can put you on the list and ask you to make a proportionate contribution. Very unsatisfactory that there are no guidelines.
 
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