Sinn Fein : wealth risk

[WolfeTone]

Those lost their jobs lost the most & I think the dole should have been kept the same for them. The dole could have been reduced for those who haven't worked in years.

The Long Term Unemployment rate for years before the crash was less than 2%. And its not really evident that that 2% were the same people. Of course the LTUR did spike during the crash, but that was because tens of thousands of working people lost their jobs.
The LTUR has now returned to less than 2%.
So it really is tinkering around the edges. Of course, to cut the dole in such circumstances, would do little to alleviate the €128bn in borrowings, but do much to anger tens of thousands of working people who were unfortunate to lose their jobs during the crash.

I would like to see more resources and powers go to the The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission

What?? Now you want to increase public sector spending???

I'm not an expert in the area, but I can tell you something, there is no way the company I am doing work for would countenance borrowing money to pay my rates.

I can't speak for your company, obviously, but it is a fallacy to compare private for profit corporations (im assuming that is what it is) that provide goods and services into the marketplace with State run institutions that provide public services as mandated for the people of the State through political representation.

Don't be surprised if your company has borrowed to pay your wages, it is not unusual for corporations to run losses for a period to invest in recruitment, research and development, increases in market share etc.

 

[Firefly]

What?? Now you want to increase public sector spending???

In this area absolutely. Of course I am sure with the billions spent in other areas, money could be reallocated

 

[WolfeTone]

€5.3bn is nothing to be sneezed at. It would transform public housing today for example

With respect, what is it you are trying to achieve? Reduce public spending and borrowing, or just re-allocate the spending and borrowing but carry on the €200bn debt?

 

[Allpartied]

Having read that utter nonsense you do seem to fit the profile of a Shinner Voter.

Because FF, or FG, who were cheering the celtic tiger with even more vigour, didn't crash the economy? Because we weren't minutes away from money, the actual concept of money, falling to pieces. Have a read of Alistair Darling's memoirs and see how close he came to sending the army on to the streets.

The only reason the banking system survives today, is because they are de facto nationalised.

The stock markets too, inflated by massive government subsidies, and assets.

But, sure, everything is fine, just keep the 3000 euro rents for kips in Drumcondra rolling in, we'll be grand.

 

[Purple]

Because FF, or FG, who were cheering the celtic tiger with even more vigour, didn't crash the economy? Because we weren't minutes away from money, the actual concept of money, falling to pieces. Have a read of Alistair Darling's memoirs and see how close he came to sending the army on to the streets.

The only reason the banking system survives today, is because they are de facto nationalised.

The stock markets too, inflated by massive government subsidies, and assets.

But, sure, everything is fine, just keep the 3000 euro rents for kips in Drumcondra rolling in, we'll be grand.

So what's the solution?

 

[Sunny]

Because FF, or FG, who were cheering the celtic tiger with even more vigour, didn't crash the economy? Because we weren't minutes away from money, the actual concept of money, falling to pieces. Have a read of Alistair Darling's memoirs and see how close he came to sending the army on to the streets.

The only reason the banking system survives today, is because they are de facto nationalised.

The stock markets too, inflated by massive government subsidies, and assets.

But, sure, everything is fine, just keep the 3000 euro rents for kips in Drumcondra rolling in, we'll be grand.

It wasn't any political party in Ireland that caused the banking crisis. It was a banking sector that completely lost the run of itself and behaved abhorrently not just here but all across Europe and the US. Does anyone forget that??? No. Does anyone think it was ok? No.

Government policies of the day were built on huge budget surpluses which were built on stamp duty and construction related taxes. So the developers were doing well, the banks were doing well AND the people of Ireland were doing well. We had SSIA schemes with 25% returns for savers, imaginary benchmarking for public sector workers to justify double digit pay rises , we had tax cuts, we had billions poured into health, we had dole increases when the country had full employment, we had constant pension increases, we built infrastructure, we hired more teachers, we abolished third level fees...The list is endless. All that was paid for with revenues from the same thing that brought down the banks. Property. Nobody at the time from ANY political party either left or right were saying stop. This is crazy. So this was not a failure of just FF (even though they were more incompetent than most). It was a failure of the Country.

And now we are going to repeat it all over again. NAMA surplus? Spend on housing instead of reducing debt. Rainy Day Fund? Nah, don't need it. Corporation Tax that everyone accepts is temporary? Spend it. Pension age as our kids face a pension crisis? Reduce it. Health Service? Sure spend another few billion chasing health Nirvana. Tax Cuts? For everyone in the audience.

Sure the boom and bust was exciting the first time. I am sure it will be exciting the next time.

 

[Firefly]

With respect, what is it you are trying to achieve? Reduce public spending and borrowing, or just re-allocate the spending and borrowing but carry on the €200bn debt?

Reduce public spending and borrowing. You had said that the €5.3bn was still someway short of the overall deficit, but I am saying it's still a significant amount.

 

[Purple]

Thanks Sunny. I didn't have the energy.

 

[Allpartied]

So what's the solution?

It wasn't any political party in Ireland that caused the banking crisis. It was a banking sector that completely lost the run of itself and behaved abhorrently not just here but all across Europe and the US. Does anyone forget that??? No. Does anyone think it was ok? No.

Government policies of the day were built on huge budget surpluses which were built on stamp duty and construction related taxes. So the developers were doing well, the banks were doing well AND the people of Ireland were doing well. We had SSIA schemes with 25% returns for savers, imaginary benchmarking for public sector workers to justify double digit pay rises , we had tax cuts, we had billions poured into health, we had dole increases when the country had full employment, we had constant pension increases, we built infrastructure, we hired more teachers, we abolished third level fees...The list is endless. All that was paid for with revenues from the same thing that brought down the banks. Property. Nobody at the time from ANY political party either left or right were saying stop. This is crazy. So this was not a failure of just FF (even though they were more incompetent than most). It was a failure of the Country.

And now we are going to repeat it all over again. NAMA surplus? Spend on housing instead of reducing debt. Rainy Day Fund? Nah, don't need it. Corporation Tax that everyone accepts is temporary? Spend it. Pension age as our kids face a pension crisis? Reduce it. Health Service? Sure spend another few billion chasing health Nirvana. Tax Cuts? For everyone in the audience.

Sure the boom and bust was exciting the first time. I am sure it will be exciting the next time.

So, its the system that's broken. I mean we can have all those things, the healthcare, the decent pensions, the modern transport systems, holidays in the med, secure jobs, but every few years we have to blow it all up and start again.
Why is that? What suddenly stops all that progress from continuing, from spreading to all sections of society?
What is this concept of capitalism, ever growing, devouring, yet continually crushing people, pushing them back, after pulling them up?

We are near the end now anyway, one way or another.
Keep going, exploiting the earth, burning its resources and we face extinction. The alternative is to calm down a bit, live a simpler life, less stuff, less waste and share what we have more efficiently.

 

[Leo]

Keep going, exploiting the earth, burning its resources and we face extinction. The alternative is to calm down a bit, live a simpler life, less stuff, less waste and share what we have more efficiently.

So capitalism is broken. What country is the closest to achieving your Utopian ideal?

 

[Sunny]

So, its the system that's broken. I mean we can have all those things, the healthcare, the decent pensions, the modern transport systems, holidays in the med, secure jobs, but every few years we have to blow it all up and start again.
Why is that? What suddenly stops all that progress from continuing, from spreading to all sections of society?
What is this concept of capitalism, ever growing, devouring, yet continually crushing people, pushing them back, after pulling them up?

We are near the end now anyway, one way or another.
Keep going, exploiting the earth, burning its resources and we face extinction. The alternative is to calm down a bit, live a simpler life, less stuff, less waste and share what we have more efficiently.

So who is promising to slow things down and live a simpler life with less things?? Must have missed that manifesto.

 

[odyssey06]

We are near the end now anyway, one way or another.
Keep going, exploiting the earth, burning its resources and we face extinction. The alternative is to calm down a bit, live a simpler life, less stuff, less waste and share what we have more efficiently.

Slightly tongue in cheek but... don't live as long... or live slower

 

[Purple]

So, its the system that's broken. I mean we can have all those things, the healthcare, the decent pensions, the modern transport systems, holidays in the med, secure jobs, but every few years we have to blow it all up and start again.
Why is that? What suddenly stops all that progress from continuing, from spreading to all sections of society?
What is this concept of capitalism, ever growing, devouring, yet continually crushing people, pushing them back, after pulling them up?

We are near the end now anyway, one way or another.
Keep going, exploiting the earth, burning its resources and we face extinction. The alternative is to calm down a bit, live a simpler life, less stuff, less waste and share what we have more efficiently.

So what have you done?

I don't expect to get a State pension.
I don't think I should be getting Children's allowance.
I am a strong supporter of property tax.
I am a strong supporter of water charges and other green taxes.
I don't think that my children should get free 3rd level education.
I drive a 10 year old car as the carbon footprint of replacing it far outweighs the footprint of keeping it.
I buy fewer, better clothes.
I've stopped eating meat.
I don't buy any food that arrives here on an aeroplane.

I also don't think that people should be given a house unless they have worked for it (subsidise it by all means but if people don't work when they can work I'd let them starve. Literally.)

 

[WolfeTone]

Reduce public spending and borrowing. You had said that the €5.3bn was still someway short of the overall deficit, but I am saying it's still a significant amount.

It is a significant amount. But if you take it out of the economy to reduce spending and borrowing, then it wont transform public housing as you suggested earlier.
It will only transform public housing if you spend this borrowed money on public housing.
Incidentally, the €5.6bn is not too far off the amount SF proposed to use to transform public housing (€6.5bn).
So what did you do, vote for SF to transform public housing, or vote for the party that promised to reduce spending and borrowing and leave the housing crisis to sort itself out?

 

[joe sod]

So capitalism is broken. What country is the closest to achieving your Utopian ideal?

Venezuela

 

[Deiseblue]

Venezuela

Probably Ireland after a FF/SF/Green coalition.

 

[odyssey06]

If we still had our own currency it would be tanking on the markets right now...

 

[Conan]

Perhaps Mary Lou’s objection to property tax is influenced by her big house in Cabra and her holiday home in Florida (where presumably she pays property tax).

 

[Leper]

Perhaps Mary Lou’s objection to property tax is influenced by her big house in Cabra and her holiday home in Florida (where presumably she pays property tax).

. . . . and nobody in FF, FG, LAB etc own big houses and foreign holiday homes? I didn't even mention their extensive property portfolios in Ireland.

 

[Purple]

Perhaps Mary Lou’s objection to property tax is influenced by her big house in Cabra and her holiday home in Florida (where presumably she pays property tax).

Will she not have a share in the big family home in leafy Rathgar?