That 20% was a once off payment and it was used to bail out bond holders and depositors. The people who owned the banks lost everything. I am very surprised that you didn’t know these things.Is that all? We are talking about 2/3 banks here?
Imagine if 20% of GDP was used to provide public services instead, healthcare, third level education, housing the homeless.
That 20% was a once off payment and it was used to bail out bond holders and depositors. The people who owned the banks lost everything. I am very surprised that you didn’t know these things.
I do agree that state employees run the country and many do a very good job but they also have to take some responsibility for the people on trolleys and homelessness.
are you saying that all those pension funds (the bond holders) should have been left to collapse?I do know these things. I also that depositors have their deposits insured by the State to the tune of €100,000. The vast majority of whom had nowhere near €100,000 on deposit.
Had the much vaunted 'free-market' rules of capitalism of risk-reward been adhered to, then the cost to Irish state would have been a fraction of what was eventually paid.
are you saying that we should have borrowed €40 billion more than we did already to fund the health sector? Do remember that the majority (80%) of our debt came from the cost of funding current expenditure so in reality we probably did borrow €40 billion for health already. Therefore are you suggesting that we should have borrowed more?They do take responsibility, all of the time. That there is a trolley crisis and homelessness crisis is a result of political decisions, such as, the aforementioned political decision to use State funds to bail out so called 'free-market risk takers' (this terminology really is a joke) thus perpetuating the trolley crisis and homelessness crisis.
are you saying that all those pension funds (the bond holders) should have been left to collapse?
Yes just imagine. That would represent a huge cut on what we currently spend.Is that all? We are talking about 2/3 banks here?
Imagine if 20% of GDP was used to provide public services instead, healthcare, third level education, housing the homeless.
Yes just imagine. That would represent a huge cut on what we currently spend.
I am continually surprised at how many people have no idea about just how much the state spends.
My bad, I said GDP instead of national debt.
But as a side, what should the State its revenues on?
Public sector workers are not 'dependent' on the State for income.
Throwing money at difficult issues doesn't resolve those issues.
Understanding the causes of the problem, In my opinion the high costs of construction and associated items, and developing a response, taxing land, taxing zoned heavily, training more builders, reducing development levies for a start.
Spending more money on housing will only entrench the problems.
It's pure speculation but do you think the country would be in a better place today if we had followed that advice?
You keep repeating the mantra about "free market capitalism".
Instead, all of the successful economies have for some time operated a "regulated fmc" model
For example Mario said he would do whatever it took to save the euro, the antithesis of "let the market rip".
The putative alternative to rfmc for organising our civilisation is the command economy. Every attempt at this latter has been a disaster so just accept that rfmc is the best we have at this point of our development.
Who else is going to pay them?
You could privatise the whole State sector. Judges, politicians, gardai, civil servants, doctors, teachers, nurses, prison officers etc...then there would be no more dependence on the State to pay their incomes.
You didn't answer the question.
The vast majority of the rest of it was built up from 2008 - 2014 or thereabouts to ensure that those dependent on the state for income, (public sector workers, pensioners and those on the dole) would not have lost out
I have to agree with you but I don't think that's the point being made by Firefly. The fact that State pensions weren't touched by the crash is a disgrace. The fact that property tax is so low is a disgrace. The fact that rich people get children's allowance is a disgrace. The fact that rich people send their kids to 3rd level for free is a disgrace. There are loads of things wrong with society and how the country is being run but claiming that the problem is quantitative easing or the banking system or some other flagbearer for capitalism is nonsense.The clear inference here is that aside from 20% of national debt to bail out banks, that the rest of the national is down to particular identifiable sectors of the population who are 'dependent' on the State for income.
This is an insidious comment to portray public sector workers, pensioners and people on the dole as a burden to the rest of society.
Lets get some things straight, the national debt is a consequence of borrowing to pay for ALL State services in which ALL sectors of society are dependent in some shape or form.
- if you have children and receive child benefit, you are contributor to that debt and that dependent on the State for that income.
- if you are a PAYE worker in receipt of a tax credit you are a contributor to that debt and dependent on the State for that income it provides.
- if the government has ever borrowed to keep part of your income at 20% you are dependent on the State
- if you ever had cause to call and rely on emergency services you are contributor to that debt and are dependent on the State to provide for the cost of that service.
- if your kids go to a State school....
- if you use public roads, street lighting, public sewers...
- jaysus, if you live in a democratic society, can cast a vote without fear or favour, and be confident that the count is impartial, fair and free, you are a contributor to that debt and are dependent on the State.
The insidious nature of your comments in general, is that you fail wholeheartedly to apply any value to the work of public sector workers. That the national debt is 69% of GDP is not because GDP has been generated by the free-market alone, it has been generated by the free-market that operates on a platform that provides the public services in which such wealth can be generated by attracting investment, attracting people into the workforce, providing the political stability, assurances to corporations and people, security, healthcare, education, etc in which economies can prosper.
It is by no means perfect, but to allude that the 80% national debt is attributable to certain sectors of society, without acknowledging the value that those sectors provide to the wealth of the economy is an insidious comment to make.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?