Sickening Sick Leave

cork said:

There is no scrutiny in the public sector of sick leave thus leaving a situation where there is a load of bogus leave granted.

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Nice sweeping statement there cork - any evidence to back this up? I have direct evidence to the contrary but hey why let facts get in the way!

I have worked in both the private and public sector.

There is a differance.

But then maybe the public sector office that I worked might have been unfortunate and the private sector one fortunate.

cork said:

I have worked in both the private and public sector.

There is a differance.

But then maybe the public sector office that I worked might have been unfortunate and the private sector one fortunate.

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Ah your probably being a bit harsh on yourself there , that Public Sector office may have been unfortunate in having you work there but you seem to have mended your ways now that you are in the private sector !

cork said:

I have worked in both the private and public sector.

.

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You were asked to back up your statement Cork or at least supply some evidence . . . you didn't . . . I'm still waiting otherwise would it not be prudent for you (well at least to save face) to apologise for your statement?

cork said:

There is no scrutiny in the public sector of sick leave thus leaving a situation where there is a load of bogus leave granted.

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This is complete and utter rubbish. In fact, it's offensive to anyone who works in the public sector.

Separately, what exactly do you mean by 'bogus leave'? You're hardly referring to the type of leave that's provided for in employment law such as Maternity leave, Parental Leave, Adopotive Leave?

A close friend of mine works in the public sector. Between annual leave, bank holidays, privilege days (now added to his annual leave) and the day a month he can work up on flexi-time (on what he calls he very short working week) he gets over 10 weeks off each year. That, in my opinion, is just ridiculous. He agrees.

I'm also a public sector worker and I don't know too many people where I work who can work up an additional flexi day per month, particularly given the extra hours we are already working. I am also commuting for nearly 4 hours ever day to get to/from my job and have no choice about the time I can leave in the evening.

Given staff shortages in the public sector generally, I don't know any manager (myself included) who could afford to have staff member on 10 weeks leave a year. The Division I work in simply couldn't function.

All employees are entitled to time off work for public holidays, not just public sector workers.

Purple said:

A close friend of mine works in the public sector. Between annual leave, bank holidays, privilege days (now added to his annual leave) and the day a month he can work up on flexi-time (on what he calls he very short working week) he gets over 10 weeks off each year. That, in my opinion, is just ridiculous. He agrees.

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Purple is a guy who normally makes some sense and always I absorb much of what he says, but let's have a look at his post above (while we are waiting for Cork to justify what he said).
Annual Leave:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors.
Bank Holidays:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors.
Privilege days:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors albeit by different names.
Flexi-Time:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors mooted by Germans to alleviate rush-hour traffic and increase work production.
10 weeks off per year:- Anybody who believes this should be looking for a man in a red suit coming down the chimney on Christmas Eve.

Let's go a bit further:-
Parental Leave:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors - Nil Rate of Pay obtains in Public sector (sometimes paid by private employers).
Maternity Leave:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors.
Career Break:- Entitlement to Public and Private sectors (Nil Rate of Pay in both; but a 3 year Career Break in parts of the public service will not be honoured and there are people who suffer an additional two years with no pay while Public Service seeks a placement for the employee.
Sick Leave:- From my experience while working in the Public sector the rules were enforced and in some cases beyond the rules (I've seen cases where medical consultant's reports were not accepted).
Annual Leave:- The famous Haddington Road Agreement reduced many Public sector employees by 2 days. In some cases this resulted in reduction of 3 days annual leave.

If anybody wants to challenge any of my post; bring it on. I can back up my post.

Leper said:

10 weeks off per year:- Anybody who believes this should be looking for a man in a red suit coming down the chimney on Christmas Eve.

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lets say 25 days AL +
2 Privilege Days +
10 Bank Holidays +
12 Flexi Days =
49 Days off...so there's you 10 weeks off

And thats not even looking at sick days, 1/2 day xmas shopping, the 13th flexi day if Org runs by 4 week periods rather than monthly cycles

Now where's that man in the red suit

As we are going the anecdotal route when working in the Bank of Ireland ( when queried as to what job I did I now say " traffic warden" ! ) I worked a 32.5 hour week and received 29 days annual leave .- close to standard across the financial sector.

Public holidays are a bit of a red herring in that most employees enjoy same with the obvious exception of some Gardaí , Nurses , Doctors , Firemen etc & people employed in the service industries who keep the show on the road .

Flexi time is an excellent system employed by both sectors whereby employees work in excess of their contracted hours over a shorter time period in order to enjoy additional leave with the blessing of employers - lthough given the hours currently worked by the public sector I would imagine it difficult to amass much additional hours.

Delboy said:

lets say 25 days AL +
2 Privilege Days +
10 Bank Holidays +
12 Flexi Days =
49 Days off...so there's you 10 weeks off

And thats not even looking at sick days, 1/2 day xmas shopping, the 13th flexi day if Org runs by 4 week periods rather than monthly cycles

Now where's that man in the red suit

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Gone.

Delboy said:

lets say 25 days AL +
2 Privilege Days +
10 Bank Holidays +
12 Flexi Days =
49 Days off...so there's you 10 weeks off

And thats not even looking at sick days, 1/2 day xmas shopping, the 13th flexi day if Org runs by 4 week periods rather than monthly cycles

Now where's that man in the red suit

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I have a PS friend who told me a few years ago that he has 30 days AL. A while back, his sector were resisting the whole clocking in system so I don't know about his flexi days. He is sick about 15 days annually, every year.

dereko1969 said:

Gone.

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Privilege days: Gone where...into AL?

I can confirm that off the record and through local arrangements, 1/2 day xmas shopping is still alive and well in some places

As the majority of employees are entitled to public holidays & flexi time ensures that employees in both sectors work their contracted hours albeit over a shorter time in order to avail of extra leave the only point debatable is the base annual leave enjoyed by both sectors.

I would have thought that an average of 25 days would apply across both sectors ?

Purple said:

A close friend of mine works in the public sector. Between annual leave, bank holidays, privilege days (now added to his annual leave) and the day a month he can work up on flexi-time (on what he calls he very short working week) he gets over 10 weeks off each year. That, in my opinion, is just ridiculous. He agrees.

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As Leper said, Flexi days are not exclusive to the public sector. Bank holidays are not exclusive to the public sector. I fail to see what is ridiculous about either of these. Is your problem with the amount of annual leave he gets? What has any of this got to do with sick leave?

The 2 privilege days (at Easter and Christmas) in the Civil Service were abolished in 2012. A once-off adjustment of 1.5 days was given in the leave year 2012/2013.

What has any of this got to with anything. I have worked in private sector companies who didn't manage sick leave effectively and it was abused. If as we approach September 2014, we are still debating 2012 figures then you would have to question the effectiveness if management information systems in parts of the public sector. For people to claim that there isn't a problem with sick leave in PARTS of the public sector is living in cloud cuckoo land. The proof is in looking at the improvements in the amount of days lost made in certain parts of the public sector in the last couple of years. Unless people are just suddenly healthier there was abuse of the system and measures were taken to address it.

Sunny said:

What has any of this got to with anything. I have worked in private sector companies who didn't manage sick leave effectively and it was abused. If as we approach September 2014, we are still debating 2012 figures then you would have to question the effectiveness if management information systems in parts of the public sector. For people to claim that there isn't a problem with sick leave in PARTS of the public sector is living in cloud cuckoo land. The proof is in looking at the improvements in the amount of days lost made in certain parts of the public sector in the last couple of years. Unless people are just suddenly healthier there was abuse of the system and measures were taken to address it.

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it is indeed puzzling as to why the figures for 2013 are as yet unavailable for the sick leave within the Public Sector , such figures will be extremely interesting given the changes to sick leave regulations recently implemented.

There is a caveat regarding sick leave figures for the Private Sector as they are based on guesstimates as it is impossible to collate exact figures given the diversity of employment within that sector - surprised that the Times didn't state that !

Sunny said:

What has any of this got to with anything. I have worked in private sector companies who didn't manage sick leave effectively and it was abused. If as we approach September 2014, we are still debating 2012 figures then you would have to question the effectiveness if management information systems in parts of the public sector. For people to claim that there isn't a problem with sick leave in PARTS of the public sector is living in cloud cuckoo land. The proof is in looking at the improvements in the amount of days lost made in certain parts of the public sector in the last couple of years. Unless people are just suddenly healthier there was abuse of the system and measures were taken to address it.

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Agree with all that Sunny. I don't think anyone on here was claiming there isn't a problem with sick leave in PARTS of the public sector - but a certain poster from a Munster county was claiming that ALL of the public sector had a problem with sick leave which is what some of us objected to. Certainly in the past couple of years I have seen a change in attitude in one part of the public sector in relation to sick leave (increase in scrutiny and questioning of sick leave) - which is to be welcomed of course. The figures for 2013 and 2014 to date would be interesting in comparison to the 2012 figures.

The hospital I work for has 3 nurses out sick long term- one with a serious medical issue and two following work related assaults. The average days taken sick are very low till their sick leave is taken into account. Then it looks like
we have high rate of sick leave. Unfortunately statistics don't take that into account! Also new sick leave arrangements
will reduce the rates of those taking the P*ss!!