Show me the evidence (Vintners Federation of Ireland)

None, because they fool the hospitality industry (read vintners) to do it for them.
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The three tobacco companies in Ireland - Gallahers, PJ Carrolls and John Player - haven't traded with pubs for years. As revenue generators to the business, pubs have always been quite small and therefore they are serviced by independant vending operators. Publicans are not complaining about the revenue being lost from the sale of cigarettes because there was never much there for them in the first place. I find it hard to believe that the tobacco companies have the ear of the vintners accociations and I find it harder to believe that that vintners would allow themselves to be sucked into a party line on behalf of someone elses interests other than their own.

I am not surprised that Gallahers reported a 16% decrease is sales last month. Tobacco sales have been falling here for years. Is the 16% decrease for one month or is it over a year?

Interesting links, ajapale. Well worth a read.
 
I think sales were 16% lower for the first 6 months of this year as compared with the same period last year. But I'm open to correction.

If the fall off is due to the ban then the impact is much more than 16%, since the ban was only in place for 3 of those months.

Glad to see Croke Park have now limited smoking to designated areas. The last two or three matches I was at I noticed the difference, even though it's outdoors.

Still can't understand why smoking in a car that contains kids isn't considered child abuse.

-Rd
 
Hi Davido,

see here listen to the tobacco pushers squeal for more on the Gallaghers story.

I must admit I feel a small bit sorry for the publicans who have convinced themselves (or allowed BigTobacco to use them as proxies in a global war) that the smoking ban is responsible for all their problems. They would be far better off concentrating on real issues over which they can have an influence.

I heard a radio ad this morning encouraging people to go to Dublin Pubs. It was a poor and unfocused ad in my opinion. It mentioned the smoking ban, what is the purpose of drawing in this debate. What ad agency was responsible?


ajapale
 
Ajapale

Is this the ad that says "..now the atomsphere is even better" if so then what's your beef? Is this not what you have been encouraging all along? promote the positive don't let bogged down on the ban ... you can't have it every way. I think these ads (average as they may be) ought to be encouraged, otherwise the only voice you'd hear is the moaning publican ...
 
if so then what's your beef?
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This thread is about how Big Tobacco has convined the hospitality and licenced vintners in particular to act as its proxies.

Of all the positive attributes of the Irish Pub (and there are many) this advertising campaign chooses to highlight clean air as a result of the smoking ban.

I used this point to highlight the fact that vintners continue to be obsessed with the smoking ban to the detriment of other far more salient issues.

ajapale
 
I heard a radio ad this morning encouraging people to go to Dublin Pubs. It was a poor and unfocused ad in my opinion. It mentioned the smoking ban, what is the purpose of drawing in this debate. What ad agency was responsible?
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Terrible ad - Obviously the Vitners just can't stomach the truth - it would break their hearts to come out & say 'Pubs are nicer places without smoke' - they have to take this roundabout route of 'you didn't just come to the pub to smoke'. :mad Have they not realised that 75% of the population don't smoke, and smart businesses would direct their marketing at the 75%, not the 25% minority.
 
Have they not realised that 75% of the population don't smoke, and smart businesses would direct their marketing at the 75%, not the 25% minority.

That would suggest an element of intelligence on behalf of the vintners.
 
'you didn't just come to the pub to smoke'
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Oh god that's funny. I mean the Ads with the tossers who are supposed to have gone to the pub after work was bad. But this takes the biscuit.

Who dreams this stuff up?????? What gombeen at the Vintners decided, yep that's good, I like it?

Is it any wonder the industry is "apparently" in trouble?

-Rd
 
i heard another one of those ads this evening, it was in the form of a joke

'Whats the capital of Cameroon', wild guesses ensue, they ask the all knowing barman, who retorts, 'Carrick-on-Shannon', and they all roll around like hyenas.

hilarious! :\

(maybe i'm thick, but could someone explain the joke to me??) >D
 
yaounde

yaounde

Pub quizzes are so much better now that you dont have to breath in noxious fumes.

Mollser,

Yes the ads are terrible. It reminds of the really bad bank ads in the 1980's: these were directed not at consumers but at massaging the egos of the senior management.

Remember these are the same poor self deluded vintners who claimed that they were the people who really ran the country!

Big Tobbacco are pulling their strings and these guys are dancing to their tune.

ajapale
 
Big Tobbon

AFAIK vintners are the second most represented occupation in the Dail so, to a degree they do run the country ... having said that, that makes the ban even more staggering well done again MM.
 
Teachers, Businessmen, Farmers, Solicitors

[broken link removed]

Teachers head the roll in new Dáil
The number represents a slight decline from the previous Dáil, although it is significantly ahead of business-men (20) and farmers (18) .

This Dáil shows a notable increase in the number of businessmen returned, and the number quoted above does not include two undertakers and a pharmacist. A survey following the general election in 1997 showed that only seven TDs described their occupation as 'businessman', although that number did not include a number of specified businesses, such as publicans.

A further 16 TDs worked in businesses or corporations as senior managers, accountants or other 'higher professionals', the most well-known of these is the Taoiseach. A similar number worked as 'lower professionals' such as clerks. Caoimghin O Caoláin of Sinn Féin is the sole bank manager.

Lawyers are well represented with 13 solicitors or barristers, although this represents a decline of three from the last Dáil. There are five lecturers and six doctors in the new Dáil, and three former union officials.

Eighteen members of the new Dáil come from 'public affairs' backgrounds -- either working as advisers or assistants to public figures in the past. These include Fiona O'Malley and MJ Nolan. Some list their professions as "full-time public representatives". Others, such as Denis Naughten who was nominated to the Seanad while still a student (following the untimely death of his father) have never been anything else but a TD. A number of successful candidates in this election -- such as Sinn Féin's Martin Ferris -- worked solely as councillors in the years preceding the election, a new departure in political life.

There are five engineers or architects in the new Dáil. Only two journalists made it to Leinster House, but they are in greater supply than social workers, of whom there is only one. There is also only one economist. Laboratory technicians are also represented -- there are three of them -- whereas the number of psychiatric nurses (one) seems on the low side.

Teachers again dominate the ranks of the 29th Dáil, with 28 members of the profession among the 166 deputies who will take their seats when the new Dáil meets for the first time next Thursday.
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ajapale
 
C&C takes swipe at smoking ban in trading statemen

[broken link removed]

It looks like the vintners are not the only crowd to allow themselves to be hijacked by Big Tobacco.

However, the company took a swipe at the smoking ban, blaming it for being "a contributory factor in the estimated overall decline of 2% in the long alcohol drinks market in the five months to July 31 2004".
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Note how this has been picked up by other publications and exaggerated:

www.thepublican.com/cgi-b...25B%20%25Y

The Irish smoking ban has caused a downturn in sales for drinks and snacks group C&C.

Dublin-based C&C said the ban, which came into effect at the end of March, has been a big factor in an estimated 5 per cent decline in on-trade sales of long alcoholic drinks in the five months to the end of July, hitting its flagship brand Bulmers Cider.
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Two per cent becomes Five per cent.

What are the odds that the international press and in particular the UK press will pick up on the exaggerated figure?

ajapael
 
"Big Tobacco"

It looks like the vintners are not the only crowd to allow themselves to be hijacked by Big Tobacco.
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Sorry to bring this up again, but has every business who claims the smoking ban has had a detrimental impact on their business been hijacked by "Big Tobacco"? If taxi drivers start giving out because people are drinking at home more often as a result of the ban and therefore don't need taxi's as much, does this mean that taxi's have been "hijacked"?
 
Re: "Big Tobacco"

Today's Irish Times report on the C&C results states that the smoking ban had no impact!
 
Re: "Big Tobacco"

Hi davido,

has every business who claims the smoking ban has had a detrimental impact on their business been hijacked by "Big Tobacco"?
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I maintain that they have.

I challenge any business (besides the tobacco business) to show me the evidence(title of thread) that their business has been effected adversly by the ban.

It is a question of showing cause and effect and not just illustrating casual association.

ajapale
 
pubsmoke

For what it's worth:

Was in one of the flasher pubs in Stillorgan last night.

Absolutely jammed, with 3/5 people eating (up to about 10pm).

Flash outdoor smoking area was also crammed full.

Atmosphere was lively, huge range of ages there, all staff rushed off their feet.

Suggest they were never busier, and are more than compensating with the numbers going to eat AND drink.
 
Re: pubsmoke

In a Pub in Glasgow on Monday at Lunch Time. There were people smoking, which took me by surprise until I realised I was not at home anymore.

The real surprise was how cheap the meal was.

Large Glass of Coke.
Minute Steak, 2 fried Eggs, Sausage,
Big Gammon Steak,
Big Homemade Burger (they were out of pork chops),
and Chips AND Salad.

All for £9 Sterling
(about €13.50)

Bon Accord pub Glasgow. Thumbs Up.

-Rd
 
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