Should I buy a diesel if living in the city?

Dublinbay12

Registered User
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131
Long story short, I am a novice when it comes to buying cars, and I have heard about only buy a diesel if you drive long distances due to a filter that can get blocked on new models.

I currently live in Dublin, I don't use my current car for commuting, and it is mostly used at the weekend for journeys of 20-60 minutes, and I regularly drive (pre-covid) drive to the south-east. Due to expanding family, dog, and regular trips to visit family (pre-covid) we need a larger car. I naturally started looking at petrols but find some brands there is a large difference in value between diesels.

From googling the Particulate Filter issue, it appears as long as there are frequent longer journeys it is ok, also that newer models have got better at filtering it on short journeys. I'd consider it a pretty major flaw for a manufacturer to sell cars that can't be driven a short journey, so I am assuming this whilst a consideration, should be ok for the type of journey I plan?

I am not currently considering a EV as I live in an apartment complex with no charging units as of yet.
 

Pinoy adventure

Registered User
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153
No.
Petrol is the way too go for a number of reasons for city driving.
Diesel is most beneficial on motorways.
Petrol will always be more expensive too buy and diesel will be more expensive too service
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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1,678
I currently live in Dublin, I don't use my current car for commuting, and it is mostly used at the weekend for journeys of 20-60 minutes, and I regularly drive (pre-covid) drive to the south-east. Due to expanding family, dog, and regular trips to visit family (pre-covid) we need a larger car

How many km do you do a year?

I've heard a good rule of thumb is to only consider diesel if >15k km pa.
 

moneymakeover

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620
I agree it makes more sense to have a petrol for city driving.
And it's better for the environment.

However the motor tax is more expensive generally speaking for petrol. Depending on emissions road tax for a 1.6l petrol can cost €570 per year

Whereas a 1.6l diesel, depending on emissions, road tax can cost €280 per year.

So petrol to reduce the motor tax you'd be looking at 1 litre , 1.2 litre

But older cars, you're better off with the bigger engine. Can rack up more miles.
 

Frank

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1,662
Not as clear cut. It sounds like you won't actually be doing a lot of city driving, sounds like you are potentially more of a weekend and holiday driver.

The couple of decent runs 60 mins and trips to south east will be enough to keep the EGR valve clear and the DPG .
It just needs a decent run to get up to temp and work properly, the constant short shop runs and never doing a decent run killed a few DPF's

Ironically if buying second hand a diesel is a lot easier to find.

If you are bringing a dog and family maybe something like a Estate or Crossover may work,
 

Zenith63

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635
Also in the budget there was mention of a Nox surcharge

Anyone know what this might mean?

Will it penalise diesel?
Yes it is intended specially to discourage diesels as they emit significantly more NOx than petrol cars and NOx levels are becoming an increasing concern in cities (various streets in Dublin breach WHO limits, ore Covid anyway). It only applies to new cars though, it’s not an on-going charge.

I think it’s probably worth having an eye to the number of cities banning diesel cars inside the city limits, how that might evolve and its impact on secondhand values. Tbh I think it probably isn’t a concern for the next few years, but worth being aware of all the same.
 

Dublinbay12

Registered User
Messages
131
Thanks all,

I would say I'm doing around 12.5km a year currently. I expect this to change with kids and a planned house move that may mean a driving commute.

I have a crossover at the minute and looking for something a little bigger so that we won't have to put the back seats down to fit the dog cage and pram.

I was looking at a Peugeot 3008 as I have a 2008 at the minute or something like a Mercedes GLC.

Also considering a 3yr PCP and then change to a hybrid / EV.
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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1,678
I would say I'm doing around 12.5km a year currently. I expect this to change with kids and a planned house move that may mean a driving commute.

Then a diesel might make more financial sense if your needs change. You have to model this yourself to take account of motor tax and fuel consumption.

In certain German cities they restrict or even ban older diesels due to emissions now. Not sure if this will ever happen in Ireland.
 

rob oyle

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633
surprised no one is mentioning hybrid here, not a plug in but a Toyota or others which self charge.
We need to tackle this advertising nonsense of 'self charging' in the bud. Toyota et al have not achieved some miracle of physics with their non-plug-in hybrids. The idea of ‘self-charging’ is leading to consumers being misled that they are moving away from fossil fuels, when no such transition is occurring. The non-plug-in hybrids - are not just primarily powered by fossil fuels, but wholly powered by fossil fuels (with some recovery of kinetic energy that would otherwise be immediately lost in braking). The US Union of Concerned Scientists stated: ‘Hybrids that can't be recharged from an outlet aren't generally considered to be electric vehicles, as they rely exclusively on gasoline or diesel for energy.’

The reality is no energy is ever ‘created' in any hybrid vehicle, just converted from what would be unconditional energy losses in conventional ICE vehicles. ALL of the energy used by a non-plug-in vehicle is derived from fossil fuels. The only energy source for such vehicles is fossil fuel. ICE hybrid vehicles MAY be more energy efficient than other fossil fuel-powered vehicles but at the end of the day, they remain a sub-category of fossil fuel-powered vehicles. Indeed, when fully fuelled and charged, a hybrid vehicle will have a much greater range when propelled by the ICE than the battery capacity of the vehicle at the start of a journey. Any additional range provided under electric power was derived from the energy provided by the ICE via combustion of fossil fuel.

The most risible argument from the advertisers is this idea that regenerative braking somehow means that not all the charging (in the sense of energy) comes from fossil fuels. This is wrong in elementary physics... if true it would render perpetual motion (completely fuel-free vehicles) possible!
 

Dublinbay12

Registered User
Messages
131
Read this before buying a diesel for low mileage city driving: https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058110434/1

TL/DR: person was advised to not buy a diesel due to low mileage then had issues when they bought the diesel anyway.
Thanks, I don't want to tempt fate nor disregard information, but I see plenty of people driving around my area in diesel cars doing the school drop. So whilst it is something to be aware of, it can be managed I am diligent?

In my situation, I will definitely (post lockdown) do 200km+ round trips every few weeks (both our parents live 2hrs away in opposite directions) and rarely it'll be driven any less than 20 minutes.
 

PGF2016

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361
Thanks, I don't want to tempt fate nor disregard information, but I see plenty of people driving around my area in diesel cars doing the school drop. So whilst it is something to be aware of, it can be managed I am diligent?

In my situation, I will definitely (post lockdown) do 200km+ round trips every few weeks (both our parents live 2hrs away in opposite directions) and rarely it'll be driven any less than 20 minutes.
Why risk it? Get a petrol that pumps out less noxious fumes and should be more reliable.
 

Drakon

Frequent Poster
Messages
870
Don’t forget that EVs are powered by electricity. Across Europe much of which is powered by fossil fuels, nuclear, etc.
EVs may not leave out noxious fumes on our streets, just through the environment.
If everyone in Germany switched to EVs overnight, the grid would collapse and there would be blackouts.

If you want to save the planet, stop flying and buy locally produced food and clothes.
 
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