Should cyclists have to pass a test / be insured / be licensed ?

[Vanilla]

Surely cyclists cycling two or three abreast will hold up a car significantly longer than another car since they travel far slower?

I regularly come across cyclists in twos or threes or bigger cycling groups on my way to work and I do believe it takes longer to pass them out because it takes longer to get to the next spot where I can pass out safely.

I understand why they do it though and it doesnt bother me much anyway as I am never in that much of a rush. I could see why a bus driver or truck driver might find it frustrating though.

If roads and traffic lights etc were also designed for the use of cyclists along with motor cars things would be much better but as it is they are designed for motor cars and the cyclists are put at risk.

 

[RainyDay]

Surely cyclists cycling two or three abreast will hold up a car significantly longer than another car since they travel far slower?

The main reason why drivers get so irritated sitting behind cyclists is because it happens so rarely. Drivers spend large amounts of their time on the road sitting behind other drivers, whether moving in traffic or in traffic lights. They are quite happy to wait behind other cars.

But for some strange reason, when faced with a 10 or 20 second delay behind a cyclist or two, many drivers seem to get outraged, and feel a need to rush past a cyclist so they can wait behind a car instead. In urban traffic, the cyclist may well have a faster average speed than the driver, but many drivers feel the need to rush past the cyclist to get to the back of the next queue of cars a few seconds earlier than would otherwise be the case.

 

[liaconn]

We drove from Clonmel to Mount Mellory at the weekend. What should have been a relaxed pleasant drive turned into a stress fest because of some cycling event which meant that every few feet there were groups of cyclists, all cycling 2, 3, or 4 abreast and 4-5 lines deep, and not bothering to move into single file to allow cars to pass. This went on for miles, caused huge delays and was a complete display of selfishness by the cyclists concerned. On only about 2 or 3 occasions did groups move aside a bit to make space for cars to get past. Some of the cyclists were unbelievable, veering and swerving around and paying no attention to cars behind them.
No doubt some of these cyclists are the ones who bang angrily on cars if they dare to infringe in any way on the cyclist's rights, but will quite happily sail through red lights, fly the wrong way up one way streets and mount the pavement anytime it suits them.

Not saying there aren't plenty of ignorant car drivers around, but many cyclists should also be taken off the roads.

 

[AlbacoreA]

If you come across an event, would it not make more sense to pull over, get a map out and find a different route to where you are going. Rather then complaining about delays if only out for a drive. I don't get all the impatience.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Surely cyclists cycling two or three abreast will hold up a car significantly longer than another car since they travel far slower? ..

What is a significant hold up on a 30 min journey in a car. 30sec, a minute, 5 mins? Do people usually travel with no allowance for delays.

 

[AlbacoreA]

...I understand why they do it though and it doesnt bother me much anyway as I am never in that much of a rush. I could see why a bus driver or truck driver might find it frustrating though....

Consider that bus gate removed the cars and trucks, and kept the cyclists and massively reduced bus journey time.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-gate-halves-journey-times-in-capital-26576538.html

What causes congestion is cars. Bicycles are part of the solution. At least in the city centers.

 

[AlbacoreA]

...With some regret, I must post comment on my very strong feeling, that some people here are cyclists and are voicing strong objections to my suggestions simply because they may think all cyclists are safe & reliable road users....l.

Actually its because you've done no research and not backed any of it up with any facts or statistics.

Considering a good many cyclists are drivers, with one or more vehicles. So they pay tax, have a license, done a test. There are rules, laws and the Garda can enforce them. Same with drivers. When you look at a cyclist you have no idea if they've paid more tax than you for the up keep of the roads.

 

[AlbacoreA]

They have a great system in Switzerland where the obligatory licence 'Vignette' costs between CHF5 and CHF7 depending on where you buy it.

It covers up to CHF2m damages done to others (not to yourself). If you scratch a car or hurt a pedestrian without having a "Velovignette" you'll have to cough up for all the damages.


According to the Swiss Bicycle Advocacy Association, every bicycle must have by law:

• The mentioned license
• Two functional brakes
• White front reflector patch, red back reflector (the latter is often part of the backlight)
• Reflectors on the pedals
• Bicycle bell (no horns, sirens etc.)
• Bike lock
• At night: headlamp and backlight

If you're stopped by the police, they will fine you if you don't have a Vignette on display and if your bicycle doesn't conform to the above standards.

Googling suggests the Swiss dropped the obligatory bike insurance/Vignette in 2012. Have you checked the rest of that is up to date?

In Ireland by law you should have

Front light (during lighting up hours)
Rear Light (during lighting up hours)
Rear reflector
Functional brakes
Bell

The cost of registering/insurance schemes for bikes seems to cost more than the revenue gained from it.

 

[liaconn]

If you come across an event, would it not make more sense to pull over, get a map out and find a different route to where you are going. Rather then complaining about delays if only out for a drive. I don't get all the impatience.

Would it not make more sense for cyclists to show consideration to other road users, rather than expecting all car drivers to put up with lengthy delays or find alternative - often longer - routes?

And it's not always 'impatience'. Sometimes people have to be somewhere by a specific time, have planned their journey accordingly and then find they are going to be very late, or even possibly miss something, because of cyclists behaving as if their right to cycle 3 or 4 abreast is more important than actually sharing the road with car users.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Legally they can't cycle 3 or 4 wide.

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997.
...
Pedal Cyclists
47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.

Someone cycling and obstruct other traffic for no good reason is no different than a car that won't pull out of the overtaking lane on the motorway.

But that wasn't my point. If I come up behind a funeral, or a tractor convoy, or a running/cycle race, its just common sense to find a different route.

I can't see how anything like that would delay you more than 5~15 mins, or indeed how that delay would be so critical on a regular basis. If it was you'd leave earlier all the time. I expect though being caught like that isn't that regular thing.

If I find one guy hogging the overtaking lane on the M50 I don't lump all drivers as behaving the same. Ditto cyclists.

 

[Leo]

I think this, and most of the other threads here relating to road use (cyclist behaviour, no one knowing how to use roundabouts, motorway lane usage, etc.) can be summarised simply as there are a lot of inconsiderate road users out there. Padestrians, cyclists, car/taxi/van/bus/truck drivers, all have their percentage who don't give due consideration to other road users or the rules of the road.

I'd imagine the percentage of each who always obey every law, and consistently show consideration to other road users are roughly similar across all categories, and is sadly, a very low number (and no, I'm not saying I'm any better than anyone here).

We already have all the laws and very little enforcement, so I don't think making more is the solution.

 

[W200]

.

Simply put, you are wrong drivers - there are significant numbers of people using cars on the streets (and footpaths !) of Dublin, who are dangerous ... something needs to be done, if only to bring the rest of the drivers of Ireland, up to the incredibly high standards which the AAM drivers would like us all to believe, they maintain .....

Hmm !

 

[RainyDay]

Would it not make more sense for cyclists to show consideration to other road users, rather than expecting all car drivers to put up with lengthy delays or find alternative - often longer - routes?

And it's not always 'impatience'. Sometimes people have to be somewhere by a specific time, have planned their journey accordingly and then find they are going to be very late, or even possibly miss something, because of cyclists behaving as if their right to cycle 3 or 4 abreast is more important than actually sharing the road with car users.

There were hundreds of cars slowing me down as I cycled in heavy traffic on the roads around Dublin today. Shouldn't they all have shown consideration and gone somewhere else to let me pass. I had things planned, places to go, people to see.

 

[Purple]

There were hundreds of cars slowing me down as I cycled in heavy traffic on the roads around Dublin today. Shouldn't they all have shown consideration and gone somewhere else to let me pass. I had things planned, places to go, people to see.

Excellent.

 

[liaconn]

There were hundreds of cars slowing me down as I cycled in heavy traffic on the roads around Dublin today. Shouldn't they all have shown consideration and gone somewhere else to let me pass. I had things planned, places to go, people to see.

Eh, not quite the same. These cyclists were breaking the law by cycling 3-4 abreast, which was the point I was making - not that they should have 'gone somewhere else'.

 

[Purple]

Eh, not quite the same. These cyclists were breaking the law by cycling 3-4 abreast, which was the point I was making - not that they should have 'gone somewhere else'.

It was still a funny post though.

 

[RainyDay]

Eh, not quite the same. These cyclists were breaking the law by cycling 3-4 abreast, which was the point I was making - not that they should have 'gone somewhere else'.

Ah, I see - so it's only the law-breaking motorists who should have got out of my way then. So given the number of motorists that break speed limits, skip through lights that have 'recently' gone red (where 'recently' is anything between 0 and 30 seconds), fail to indicate, overtake dangerously, phone/text/surf while driving or in traffic, it's just about 50%-75% of the motorists who should have moved out of my way when they were slowing me down, following your logic?

As it happens, it is legal to cycle 3 abreast when the 3rd one is overtake the other 2. But more importantly, they were probably doing you a favour by bunching up across the road ('horizontally' if you like) rather than lining up in single file ('vertically' if you like). It is easier to pass a horizontal object on the road than a vertical object. You'll get pass a horizontal object quickly once you find a safe spot to overtake. You don't have to worry too much about oncoming bends or oncoming traffic. With a vertical object, you'll have to think about how close you are to the next bend, and what might be coming round the bend. It's easier to overtake a wide truck than a very long truck. It's easier to overtake cyclists in a row than in a line.

 

[liaconn]

Ah, I see - so it's only the law-breaking motorists who should have got out of my way then. So given the number of motorists that break speed limits, skip through lights that have 'recently' gone red (where 'recently' is anything between 0 and 30 seconds), fail to indicate, overtake dangerously, phone/text/surf while driving or in traffic, it's just about 50%-75% of the motorists who should have moved out of my way when they were slowing me down, following your logic?

As it happens, it is legal to cycle 3 abreast when the 3rd one is overtake the other 2. But more importantly, they were probably doing you a favour by bunching up across the road ('horizontally' if you like) rather than lining up in single file ('vertically' if you like). It is easier to pass a horizontal object on the road than a vertical object. You'll get pass a horizontal object quickly once you find a safe spot to overtake. You don't have to worry too much about oncoming bends or oncoming traffic. With a vertical object, you'll have to think about how close you are to the next bend, and what might be coming round the bend. It's easier to overtake a wide truck than a very long truck. It's easier to overtake cyclists in a row than in a line.

If you read my original post I made it clear there are inconsiderate motorists out there. I was recounting a particular experience I had with a large group of inconsiderate cyclists last weekend. I presume that's allowed?

I disagree re overtaking horizontal cyclists. With one or two you can get past without having to go right over to the other side of the road; with 3 or 4 on a country road this is not possible.

 

[AlbacoreA]

...I disagree re overtaking horizontal cyclists. With one or two you can get past without having to go right over to the other side of the road; with 3 or 4 on a country road this is not possible.

Sometimes cyclists keep out from the kerb or cycle abreast to force motorists to give them proper space when overtaken as too often drivers cut it too close, trying to squeeze by, rather than waiting for space to overtake properly.

The most common collision involved right-turning cars. These accounted for just fewer than 20 per cent of incidents.

The next most common type is classified as “side swipes”, accounting for 15 per cent of collisions. These occur where a vehicle overtaking a cyclist or changing lanes hits the bicycle.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169

 

[Latrade]

We drove from Clonmel to Mount Mellory at the weekend. What should have been a relaxed pleasant drive turned into a stress fest because of some cycling event which meant that every few feet there were groups of cyclists, all cycling 2, 3, or 4 abreast and 4-5 lines deep, and not bothering to move into single file to allow cars to pass. This went on for miles, caused huge delays and was a complete display of selfishness by the cyclists concerned. On only about 2 or 3 occasions did groups move aside a bit to make space for cars to get past. Some of the cyclists were unbelievable, veering and swerving around and paying no attention to cars behind them.
No doubt some of these cyclists are the ones who bang angrily on cars if they dare to infringe in any way on the cyclist's rights, but will quite happily sail through red lights, fly the wrong way up one way streets and mount the pavement anytime it suits them.

Not saying there aren't plenty of ignorant car drivers around, but many cyclists should also be taken off the roads.

There's a difference between an organised event that has been planned months in advance through discussion with the Gardai and Local Authority and local residents that you happened to stumble on and commuting cycling.

I would say those that take cycling serious enough to partake in events are actually not the casual cyclists you see commuting who disregard the rules of the road.

As to the selfishness of those partaking in the event, not really selfish as stated above, there are very clear and strict Codes of Practice that must be followed for an event after all of those hoops and consultations, it's reasonable to expect that the event can run as planned and as an actual race. You unfortunately happened to stumble upon it, though it wouldn't have been too difficult to find that information out prior to the drive.