Serious Defeciencies in Public Health System (esp A&E).

Bronte said:
I'm a bit lost. What is a call center jockey?
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They are the multi-lingual technical support engineers that offer high level support to product users all over the world. They are, obviously, less skilled than the people who push beds around hospitals all day (since it seems sweeping generalisations are ok when applied to the private sector).
 
1. Don't you think that whether people are on a break or not that they could show some common decency and get a man who cannot stand a chair?

I've some more questions about this story, but it's not asked directly of you Leper for the replies.

2.Why are there no pillows available in a Dublin hospital?

3.Why would urine by left on the floor and not immediately be cleaned up?

4.Why would someone have to spend a week on a trolly?

5.Why would a nurse rap someone on the feet to wake them up instead of gently waking them?

6.What protocal prevents a staff member from giving a chair to a visitor?

7.Why would a patient not be given water?

8.Why would a patient's family member have to contact a GP to get test results from a hospital, why in other words weren't the results immediately given to the patient by the staff? Is this not what happens in hospitals?

Bronte, I know you did not aim the foregoing at me, but as usual I'll try to answer each question anyway and my way.

1. Hospitals are interested in patient welfare - not visitors.

2. I dont know why pillows were not available. Perhaps the hospital management could answer this - did you ask them?

3. How long was the urine on the floor? Were staff informed that the floor was in such a state? How long did it take to be rectified. Perhaps HIQA can help here?

4. Good question and I dont agree with such procedure.

5. Serious allegation this. If a patient was hurt in any way by any member of staff, I am sure the staff member would be disciplined and suspended pending an enquiry. Did you complain at the time?

6. I dont know, perhaps loads of work?

7. I dont know whay a patient would not be given water. Did you complain to the hospital management?

8. Good question. But, remember first day it was probably the GP who referred the patient to the hospital. I would think it good practice to inform the GP, but inform the patient also simultaneously.


 
Leper said:
1. Hospitals are interested in patient welfare - not visitors.
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Nothing against you Leper but I find that reponse inadequate. I understand that hospitals are there first and foremost for patient welfare but I fail to see why common human decency would not have allowed a staff member to offer a chair to someone who has standing problems.

My experiences abroad are so removed from the picture painted in this case and others I've read about that I truly find it amazing what passes for care.

In a couple of my questions, which you did kindly reply to, your answer was to complain to management, but why should it have to reach that stage. Surely staff members can see urine on the floor themselves, are they not checking the patient regularly, it would be hard to miss and do they not arrange for it to be cleaned up.

Another question I forgot to ask yestereday and it is more serious, surely an elderly lady who was incontinent should be checked and changed regularly not left in her own excrement etc. No doubt there was more than urine. If true, which I'm not doubting the OP it is a very sad indictment of the care given in Irish hospitals.

Does anyone else have the answer as to why people spend so long on trolly's. Is it lack of beds?

I still also don't understand why a GP had to get results, I've never encountered such a thing. Apart from pregnancies, my OH had to spend time in hospital last year for an operation and also about 10 years ago and I've had treatment myself, plus with the kids A&E from time to time. And a scenario such as above I've never seen.

You mentioned for the floor cleaning Hiqua, what do they do? Something about process and procedures? Are they part of the HSE?
 
Perhaps the whole sorry state is a direct result of a mammoth organisation where incentives for high achievement aren't there coupled with the appropriate risks to employment for those not pulling their weight? Maybe it's time to bring back the nuns????
 
From today's Irish Times, from a professor no less..

Who'll be first with an A & E app?
Sir, – If it is of any comfort to Bob Carty (December 3rd), we have repeatedly floated the idea of providing information on emergency department waiting times to the public. We’ve thought of phone lines, using public radio, and online solutions.
Interestingly, and given the season we’re in, the response of management is always “Oh no you can’t”! – Yours, etc,
Prof STEPHEN CUSACK,
Emergency Department,
Cork University Hospital.

[broken link removed]
 

I was the original poster. And by the way I am female. I am a few weeks over having a number of discs removed hence requiring a chair. My mother is 65 and cannot be expected to stand for long periods of time. My point re the porters smoking when asked was not in relation to them having a break due but more that Connolly Hospital sports a no smoking policy on campus.

The rest of the observations are entirely accurate. I sent a letter to James Reilly so will see what happens.

Once my dad finally got onto a ward he was well looked after.
 

1. When I visit a hospital ward, I look around for a spare seat and use it if necessary. If I had some kind of disability that I could not acquire a chair I would ask a staff member (medical, administrative, portering, attending or otherwise) where could I get a chair as standing would be impossible. I bet this was not done.

2. Urine on a floor might be there just a few seconds (or lets say minutes for the argument). If the staff dont know it is there how can they clean it up. Who knows why the urine was not seen?

3. Management are there to receive complaints. There is no point in saying this should not happen and that should not happen, things happen, accidents occur etc. Road traffic accidents should not occur but they do.

4. Again (I presume) the GP had an interest in the case and therefore results probably have to be sent to him/her. I dont see why the results cannot be sent to the patient simultaneously also.

5. HIQA is not part of the HSE. It is an independent body that oversees the HSE and what goes on in hospitals.

6. I see no reson why incontinent patients should not be checked. I would think it a grave situation if the patient was not checked often. If this happened you have grounds for complaint.

7. Why do people spend so long on hospital trollies? Well, that's what we all on here are trying to find out. I cant answer the question. But, I am sure there is an answer. Like I said earlier, why are we not copying the British NHS? There are only four million of us are our hospitals missing the obvious?
 

As I mention, I'm the original poster. Please have the courtesy to read my original post as all of these were replied to. However

1. I did ask, several times, and was told it was not hospital protocol. I even next day saw another visitor arrive complete with three legged stool.

2/6. Urine was there all night for three nights - only cleaned each morning

3. Management have received complaints in writing and orally at the time.

4. It was late night when my dad was told possibly life threatening news. No problem re sending to GP but it was only by using that they we on the ground got the results

Anyway my dad's home now. On daily injections and visit to hospital (only because he lives nearby, otherwise would still be in)
 
amtc said:
. I even next day saw another visitor arrive complete with three legged stool.
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That's so funny, but it's sad too. The irony of the smoking I didn't get until now. They quote you protocals on chairs but ignore their own rules on smoking.

As an aside I think it's wrong that people are not allowed to have a smoking room while in hospital (I do not smoke myself and never have).

Leper suggested the solution to your problem was to complain to management, but that didn't work. I wonder what happens your complaint, does it go into the room of unopened letters that I heard about a year ago I wonder. Surely they must reply to your complaint. I'd be very interested in how your oral complaint was dealt with. And was there any reply to your written complaint.

The story about the urine is disgusting. There is a lady and her husband currently being prosecuted for neglect of her mother and the HSE shoudl be reported for neglect of that elderly lady if what you say is true. I mean 3 days of urine, what kind of caring profession would leave someone like that.

Amtc how was the urine getting on the floor, was it leaking through the mattress?

Leper you said Hiqua is independant of the HSE. Are you sure it's just not another department or subsisdery of the HSE. My question really is how independant is it?
 
Complaining orally in a hospital is probably a waste of time depending on whom you complain. Every hospital has official forms advertised in every hospital in prominent places. The forms can be completed there and then or posted later if desirable.

I dont believe there was urine on the floor all night for three nights. Nurses and attendants are vigilant and provide 24 hours per day service. If you are telling the full truth you have grounds for major complaint and you would need some serious answers. Furthermore, I would bring the complaint to HIQA.

For the record HIQA is an independent body that stringently oversees workings within hospitals etc.

But, before you complain make sure of your facts.
 
Leper said:
I dont believe there was urine on the floor all night for three nights.
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I have given details of this in an old thread, but earlier in the year my father in law was taken by ambulance to Vincents and I arrived there a few minutes later (around 1am I think).

There was a man slumped in a hospital wheelchair in the waiting area (next to the reception desk) with his trousers undone and pulled down and an open incontinence pad/nappy under the wheelchair with urine in it. He was already there at 1am, around 6am when he woke up and tried to stand. He fell over, and members of the public in the waiting room assisted him back into the wheelchair. No staff member came to help. The open incontinence pad/nappy was still there with contents when we left at 8am. A nurse had checked on him some time prior to him falling so he was definitely a patient.
 
Did you complain verbally and in writing? If so, to whom? What was the result?

If you didnt complain and your post is true what are we to think?
 
Leper said:
Did you complain verbally and in writing? If so, to whom? What was the result?
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I was more concerned with what was going on with my father in law at the time.

I didnt complain. There were a number of unbelievable incidents that night.

Leper said:
If you didnt complain and your post is true what are we to think?
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Im not sure I understand what you mean by the above? It did happen, if you dont want to believe it thats fine.
 

1. You did not complain of what you say you saw. Unbelieveably reckless and uncaring serious decision in my opinion.

2. There were other "unbelieveable incidents that night." You did nothing about these either.

3. If you are not sure of understanding my comments I think you fell down on the job. No point in complaining here - Complain where it matters.

[No offence meant, just my opinions above]
 
As I said, my father in laws health was the foremost priority that night. I wasnt complaining actually, I was simply giving an example of urine being unattended for long periods of time in a hospital when you claimed not to believe someone elses experience of it.

I did things about some of the other incidents - I just didnt detail them here.

I wasnt on a job, I was just an anxious relative in a waiting room from 1am to 8am at which point my father in law still hadnt had any medical attention so we left.
 
I’ve been in A&E plenty of times with relatives and a few times for myself.
I’ve never seen a nurse clean up a spill or clean off a patient. I’ve seen them call attendants to do it and sometimes attendants have turned up and sorted it out. There was a times nurses did that sort of thing but it’s beneath them now which is a pity since the nurse used to be the humane face of what can be a frightening and bewildering experience.
The fact that no one seems to be in charge is also a problem; members of the public don’t know who the boss is and so don’t know who to talk to. There was also a time when the person in charge would have seen the old man in the wheelchair and told the relevant employee to do their job. The problem isn’t money or resources; it’s health service employees not caring enough to do their job.
I’ve experienced superb nursing care when my children have been seriously ill in hospital. During the same stays I’ve also experienced abysmal care; nurses who were lazy and hostile to patients and visitors alike. They and other healthcare employees like them are a major part of the problem.
 
To be fair I think it's a lot down to bad management and an inadequate risk/reward structure. If you take any large organisation there are always going to be good, hard-working employees and those that will slack where the opportunity arises. Proper management should exist to reward the former and address the latter.

Sadly, the way the reward structure for the HSE seems to operate is most benefit from "performance" increments. In addition to this it's extremely difficult to lose your job for poor performance. In that situation, the good, hard-working employees will soon realise it's not worth their while and those slacking at the bottom continue - no risk to employment. Although unions seem to strive for equality and "something for everyone", the practice is anything but fair..the good, hard working employers are essentially paying for the slackers to slack.

It reminds me of this urban myth:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
 
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