See post #16
Separation - wife wants me out of house before separation agreed
- Thread starter mrbongos
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The children are 16 and 18. At that point, parenting is not the same. When he says he doesn't do the parenting. I would be surprised if he doesn't talk to his children, listen to them, drop them to a few places when needed, follow on their days, have dinners with them... Parenting an 18 years old is not the same as parenting a 2 years old. This teenager could be heading to university next year.
I would also discourage him from leaving the house without proper legal advice.
Even when the children are older and have left, it can be difficult to get the house back!
I would also discourage him from leaving the house without proper legal advice.
Even when the children are older and have left, it can be difficult to get the house back!
I was your 16 year old years ago. I felt my father should have moved out and we spoke very little for many many years as a result of him ‘sticking it out’ on the advice of his solicitor.
I have no doubt that the best legal and financial advice is for you to stay. But sorry to say it sounds like your relationship with your children is well on its way to being irreparably damaged and you need to make a decision as to whether that is more important than (ultimately) the money. I accept that your financial situation is a very significant factor in this.
I like to think about how I would look back on a major decision like this when lying on my deathbed. And remember solicitors give good legal advice to protect your interests, often this aligns with good life/happiness advice, but not always!
When people tell you who they are, believe them.
I'm Batman.
Only the OP can know what the best approach is in dealing with his children and repairing his relationship with them but leaving himself in a position where he cannot provide a home for himself is not conducive to enabling a normal functioning relationship with them. He asked for financial/legal advice and got it. The rest is speculation.
It depends what you call parenting. He said he did not do the parenting as such apart from school lunches, the things around the house. With that age group there's very little parenting between 8 /8.30 and 4 pm.
The 16 years old might think he should have moved out, the 18 might not... Situations are complexe and teenagers might not have a clear understanding of the situation.
We just don't know the emotional situation and the ins and outs of the break up.
That is a financial website.
The fact he doesn't do the parenting does not mean he can't do it or is not willing to do it. There's a definite biased in Ireland against father in terms of parenting.
So he would need to move out of a house he probably financially contributed a lot for because his wife said so.
The 16 years old might think he should have moved out, the 18 might not... Situations are complexe and teenagers might not have a clear understanding of the situation.
We just don't know the emotional situation and the ins and outs of the break up.
That is a financial website.
The fact he doesn't do the parenting does not mean he can't do it or is not willing to do it. There's a definite biased in Ireland against father in terms of parenting.
So he would need to move out of a house he probably financially contributed a lot for because his wife said so.
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There are many situations in life where people think what they need is just legal advice. Some solicitors are great at giving the legal advice but then taking you aside, giving you a slap across the face and some life advice, many are not.
Nevertheless this is not the first thread on AAM where somebody has asked for one piece of advice and has rightly been given additional suggestions. I have first hand experience of the situation the OP is in and responded to the first hand information they gave, no speculation involved in my response.
where's Robin?
Yes, we all see the world from our own perspective. I am a father who did move out and the fallout on the children was appalling. 10 years later and I'm still picking up the financial and emotional pieces. That said it was still better than continuing in the marriage.
Some parenting is better done by the father, some by the mother. I taught my children to cook and sew and wash and iron. Either parent can do simple things like that. Talking to my daughters about menstruation and bringing my 17 year old to the doctor get birth control after talking to her about sex and safety is something that, in normal circumstances, would be better done my the mother.
I sold him to the Carmelites.where's Robin?
Ah sorry I see the confusion. I was not involved in that speculation about how much parenting the OP is doing, I have no idea why people are engaging in a pointless and potentially hurtful discussion like that here.
I missed the confusion.
What's potentially hurtful about it?
Advice was given about the best way to proceed from a legal perspective. The conversation then moved on to what's best for the children. That, obviously, leads on to parenting. People, including you, then offered advice based on their own experience and perspective.
BoscoTalking
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The wording here assumes a lot - maybe OP wanted his wife at the time to stay at home? And the sacrifice was on her part?
Moving out with nowhere to go makes no sense, especially with the costs of rent etc.
Because there are teenagers involved I would stay put and start talking to them, explain what’s happening from your perspective and maybe ask them how they feel? And explain why you are choosing to stay put for now (rental market is costly on your joint savings and possible college funds ??) They could be surprised when their hear your view and feel valued when you listen to them.
There was speculation (which I thought you were referring to in your response to me when you mentioned speculation) about whether the OP was really involved in parenting their children and to what extent. That could be quite hurtful at a time when life feels very difficult already and is pure speculation. Anyway lets move on, just some crossed wires it seems.
However it is facilitated being able to look after your own children in your own home is, sadly, now a privilege. Having to go to work and not see them all day is a far less desirable way to spend your time.
Unfortunately there are losers all around when a family breaks up.
The person who leaves the family home needs to be able to have a home where they can parent their children as equitably as possible. Leaving before that is in place puts them at a disadvantage that could take years to recover from.
With the children, 16-18, both parents can have conversations with them to get their views and explain the finances, the plans for the future, what can be salvaged from each relationship. Mediation might work with all 4.
The person who leaves the family home needs to be able to have a home where they can parent their children as equitably as possible. Leaving before that is in place puts them at a disadvantage that could take years to recover from.
With the children, 16-18, both parents can have conversations with them to get their views and explain the finances, the plans for the future, what can be salvaged from each relationship. Mediation might work with all 4.
One option that many separated parents have gone for is the installation of a garden room and this become the day quarters for one of the parents - usually the male.
Legally you cannot use such a place for sleeping, but its not exactly enforced especially if its a family member. If a relationship is reasonably cordial and there's no 3rd party relationship, this might be an option.
Legally you cannot use such a place for sleeping, but its not exactly enforced especially if its a family member. If a relationship is reasonably cordial and there's no 3rd party relationship, this might be an option.
This is OP again. Interesting discussion, thanks everyone for contributing. Some more background info:
We did discuss wife moving out too, but one of the kids is not talking to me and it wouldn't solve what my wife wants - me out of the way and it not being awkward with kids. So the one that made more sense is me moving out. The kids need little parenting from me. I work, mostly from home. My wife gave up working over the years (went part-time, took career break, now retired) to spend her time looking after kids in secondary school (seems to believe they need it more then). I certainly could take over the role of looking after them but my wife moving out would be far more distressing to kids than me moving out, as it happens.
The child not talking to me - we plan to get to counseling soon, that may help get communication going again. I don't think I'll move out - I don't believe it will particularly damage relationships any more. If I leave I am fairly certain the actual separation process will take a lot longer - partly as all will be rosy in the garden for my wife and kids. Plus there's the legal side, it's just safer to stay and not be accused of anything - and also communication is easier and faster, despite the awkwardness in the house.
On a separate question, we've just started joint mediation to broker a deal. We have relatively straightforward setup: main house ~750K with >100K mortage, a holiday home ~400K we own outright, shares, pensions and some cash. Likely outcome after 50/50 split + maintenance is wife and kids stay in main house, I'll keep holiday home, may need to find rental place in Dublin or else commute occasionally from holiday home. Don't think there will be much argy bargy about access rights to kids.
What's the typical time it takes from starting mediating to a signed deal by solicitors (the point at which I can move out)? I know it's a "how long is a piece of string" type of question, but I'd be interested in best case/worst case estimates ...?
We did discuss wife moving out too, but one of the kids is not talking to me and it wouldn't solve what my wife wants - me out of the way and it not being awkward with kids. So the one that made more sense is me moving out. The kids need little parenting from me. I work, mostly from home. My wife gave up working over the years (went part-time, took career break, now retired) to spend her time looking after kids in secondary school (seems to believe they need it more then). I certainly could take over the role of looking after them but my wife moving out would be far more distressing to kids than me moving out, as it happens.
The child not talking to me - we plan to get to counseling soon, that may help get communication going again. I don't think I'll move out - I don't believe it will particularly damage relationships any more. If I leave I am fairly certain the actual separation process will take a lot longer - partly as all will be rosy in the garden for my wife and kids. Plus there's the legal side, it's just safer to stay and not be accused of anything - and also communication is easier and faster, despite the awkwardness in the house.
Spot on @azerty
Also correct @Purple
On a separate question, we've just started joint mediation to broker a deal. We have relatively straightforward setup: main house ~750K with >100K mortage, a holiday home ~400K we own outright, shares, pensions and some cash. Likely outcome after 50/50 split + maintenance is wife and kids stay in main house, I'll keep holiday home, may need to find rental place in Dublin or else commute occasionally from holiday home. Don't think there will be much argy bargy about access rights to kids.
What's the typical time it takes from starting mediating to a signed deal by solicitors (the point at which I can move out)? I know it's a "how long is a piece of string" type of question, but I'd be interested in best case/worst case estimates ...?
You have good marital assets and very little debt. That makes it much easier. It'll still take more than a year for a legal separation so just get all your ducks in a row and get divorced in two years. If you want to maintain a relationship with the kids I'd suggest selling the holiday home and buying your own place near the family home.