SEPA Instant Progress, or the lack of it...

cally1990 said:
So is this working if you send money from another bank to PTSB? Eg a business account to your current account with PTSB or is it only to accounts in your own name
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It only works if the bank you are sending the money from is capable of sending SEPA Instant payments (no Irish banks are, but the likes of Revolut, N26 etc. are). All PTSB accounts with an IBAN should be reachable for instant payments now.
 
24601 said:
It only works if the bank you are sending the money from is capable of sending SEPA Instant payments (no Irish banks are, but the likes of Revolut, N26 etc. are). All PTSB accounts with an IBAN should be reachable for instant payments now
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Gotcha ! Thanks
 
24601 said:
All PTSB accounts with an IBAN should be reachable for instant payments now.
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Oddly, that’s not the case. PTSB say that only what they refer to as “PTSB Payment Accounts” are capable of receiving SEPA Instant. Other accounts, such as regular saver, cannot receive SEPA Instant, despite them having an IBAN. Details below:

 
The Oggster said:
AIB have instant Sepa now. I just sent money from Bunq to AIB and it arrived instantly.
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I did two transfers from BUNQ to AIB during during the week just gone. Both transfers from the same source account and to the same destination account. One arrived instantly, the other took over 24 hours. I queried this with BUNQ and was given a generic cut and paster response which left me no wiser.
 
I just tried Revolut to PTSB and it's going to be tomorrow and not 10 seconds. I presume I should have deleted my PTSB account details on Revolut and then set up again and then it would be only 10 seconds?
 
Tad frustrating yesterday, was trying to set up an ETF in Lightyear for my daughter, her funds are in PTSB by the time the test amount arrived today the S&P500 had bounced back considerably.

Ah well, that's life.
 
I was concerned by the PTSB notice that I referred to in post #25. I check BOI today and their take on this is even worse, see below. In particular, the final paragraph. "SEPA Instant payments will not apply to certain account types such as Loans, Mortgages, Deposits (other than Personal or Business Demand Deposit Accounts opened before 18 October 2022), Currency or Credit Card accounts" (My emphasis)

Why the jesuitical differentiation between Personal Deposit Accounts opened before and those opened on/after 18th October 2022 ?

And why are Credit Card Accounts excluded, given that PTSB are explicitly including them ?

Is this going to be IBAN discrimination all over again, with the various parties involved having to be dragged inch by inch over the line ? We know by now that the CBI is completely useless when it comes to being proactive on consumer related matters. It will be very frustrating if it falls on individuals to fight this cases by case through our slow and bureaucratic regulatory and complaints procedures.


Overall, far from impressed by the implementation thus far, notwithstanding that it is still early days, the banks total lack of enthusiasm for the change and the scale of the change at a technical level. SEPA Instant has been operational since 2017 and the dates for mandatory implementation were flagged early in 2024 so there is no excuse for anything other than a smooth and timely rollout. It will be a lot easier to judge the quality of the service on/after 25th November when SEPA Instant becomes mandatory for outbound transactions but to date the reliability of the Irish Banks implementation leaves a lot to be desired, and "Instant" appears to be a bonus when it happens rather than something that can be relied upon. Based on my experiences, it is also showing up the Irish Bank's rubbish security and verification processes which look like they will be under considerable strain going forward.
 
For the record I checked AIB's take on which accounts are included for SEPA Instant and it is as follows.

Interesting that AIB include Credit Cards and all Deposit Accounts when BOI don't feel the need to bother doing so.

 
Legally speaking the key thing is whether the accounts in question are "payment accounts" under PSD2 or not. Only "payment accounts" are in scope for Instant Payments. There is EU case-law holding that savings accounts and other deposit accounts whose primary purpose is not to make payments are not "payment accounts". I realise that to many, their main current account is potentially both a deposit and payment account. Some are confusing this with IBAN discrimination, which is a private sector problem whereby utility companies and employers for instance will not make/accept payments from foreign IBANs of customers/employee. That is a separate and distinct problem to instant payments implementation.
 
I'm not confusing anything. Fully accept that these are different problems. I mentioned IBAN discrimination, however unrelated, as an example of something that should not have been an issue and that required consumer's having to fight for what was mandated. The point is that we don't an effective champion for consumer interest, especially in the financial sector. By the way, the Irish retail banks are also private sector, notwithstanding the fact that we have to bail them out due to their incompetence.
 
I would say the CBI will take a more keen interest in ensuring compliance with the Instant Payments Regulation than IBAN discrimination because this is a clear financial services law obligation which firms it supervises must comply with. IBAN discrimination is not fully within the CBI remit, more of a general consumer one. Speaking of which the CBI is always keen to delimit its competition mandate and in the new PSD3 text, much of the enforcement obligations are really competition related, so it will be interesting to see how that is handled by the CBI.

One omission in the tables above is whether An Post's payment account offering is also capable of receiving instant payments yet. Along with the banks and Revolut, they are probably among the top 5/6 payment account providers in the Irish market.
 
just sent a test tenner from my N26 account and it arrived immediately in my AIB Current account. What an age we live in, tonight I'm going to party like it's 2008! (I bet it doesn't work at the weekend...)

of course I still can't save my N26 details in the AIB app because it's not an Irish IBAN.
 
Gushering said:
I would say the CBI will take a more keen interest in ensuring compliance with the Instant Payments Regulation than IBAN discrimination because this is a clear financial services law obligation
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I had an IBAN discrimination issue with a financial services firm (on of the health insurers I think). Contacted CBI, than had someone from the firm calling me later that day to take my nonIrish IBAN for the direct debit
 
Revolut to EBS is instant for me, but strangely Revolut to N26 (since N26 has opened up instant for all) still does not get instant. That's quite frustating since they're both neobanks.
 
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