Send child to private school

Re Truthseeker's and Buzybee's parents.


I have never met people like this. I can't understand their behaviour.

What sort of parents would not want to help with their children's education??

They seem to actively want to hold their children back.

My parents would do anything to support me.

My friends with teenage kids have started saving for college.

Sure how else are we to get social mobility and improved education, skills, training, human capital, innovation, other than parents investing in and supporting their children??
 
Truthseeker, I re-read your post.

OK, I have some sympathy with your parents.

However, my grandparents with no LC or degrees, were farsighted enough to encorage my parents generation to get training / degrees, e.g. nursing / acc / teaching.
 
@Protocol - I wasnt the only one of my friends whose parents had that mindset.

Just to draw it out a little, my mother was far more against education than my father, he was more of the view that you should do what you want to do in life, whereas she actively believed that I should be looking for a job immediately upon finishing school. (I was in a part time job then, she thought I should accept full time - it was a local supermarket).

I remember the day the CAO results came out in the newspaper (back before the internet eh?), and I was in work, I got the Irish Times, found out I got the course I wanted and was super excited about it. I went home and immediately my mother said 'well we cant pay for it, you will have to pay for it yourself if you want to do it'. Later that evening my father took me aside seperately and told me that he would be willing to borrow to help me out and that he would talk to my mother about it.

As it happened, with free fees and a grant available (all of 200 pounds a term!), I didnt need any financial assistance from my parents, but there was a very grey time between CAO and grant approval where I really didnt know if Id be able to go.

Closer to the end of my degree my mother told me that she hadnt really understood the whole thing, that she hadnt realised that it was possible for me to 'better myself' with an education, and that she had thought that I just wanted to go to college because I liked books but that there was no practical application to be had. She had the view that it would be wasted because surely Id just end up getting married and not working.

I didnt hold any resentment over it, my parents came from a very different background to me where sometimes there wasnt enough food on the table for everyone in the family, they had harsh childhoods themselves. They both had old fashioned views on how people should proceed through life - a trade for a boy, a job then a husband and babies for a girl. That was just their expectation - I was breaking the mould by wanting a professional qualification.

But I must stress - I wasnt the only one of my friends whose parents had similar views. And this was 20 years ago when a degree was less of a norm.
 
I did the leaving in 1988 and 1989 and I was encouraged to get further education as there were no jobs in the country so you had to have something, either to work abroad with or to get a job here with. Since we lived out the country, there were no jobs around much. In college there were very few jobs to be had, Dunnes was regarded as being very good!

ETA, I think other people have made a good point about peer groups. I heard of one such class when I was in college, but I'm not sure how common it is. The other thing is, as parents, you have little control over who is in your childs class or peer group, but you can control your own expectations, and encourage the kids...
 
Now maybe you need to generalise to get to any broad conclusions -but I think its a dangerous logic. Every child is different, you need to see what suits them as individuals - so there isnt one great answer to this question. A few of my perspectives below...............

I went to a boarding school down the country - about 25 miles from home. While the school had many students who well academically, it had a very broad base so there were plenty of people who bombed out as well. Boarders, on average, were worse than the general population, many there because it was easier than trying to handle them at home - so twas as much 'reform school' as people having notions that twas the best thing going (my parents being in the latter camp). Of the boarders I'd say I was about the only one of my year to max their potential - & get an objectively v good result.

My point is not to clap myself on the back, just to say that if someone is motivated enough they'll get past the peer group thing. Boarding schools I wouldnt recommend as its harder to break from the group - you're in the pack 24/5 or 24/19 in some cases.

Private schools and grind schools are unnecessary provided a) the local school isnt terrible and b) the child is motivated/sensible & c) the parents help (or at least dont hinder).

In particular I think grind schools dont provide enough balance in sports and social development. When you hit Uni you need to be your own person - no one is going to make you do "homework". No good churing out 600 pointers with no social skills or balanced view of life - live is long, the leaving result becomes an old statistic fairly fast. (dont want to stigmatise high achievers by that comment, but grind schools want cyborgs, not teenagers!!)

I didnt have to work during college (though I did work hard in the Summers) - my parents paid for accomodation etc. Was I privileged?, definitely yes. Does that make me or my achievements any the lesser?, I dont think so. Lack of 'privilege' is not the greatest problem in this country, its lack of people making the most of whats given to them, be that 'privilege', brains, ability to work etc.

I cant comprehend parents who dont encourage their kids, or who make it hard for them. Everyone has priorities for cash, if its gee-gees, drink & fags or premium cars and big holidays then you wont have money for the kids - your decision. If you really feel that a private school will help your child then by all means cut everything else to pay for it - I just think that private schools are not the crucial element. If its a dosser you have they will find dossers anywhere - save your cash & try to suss out what really interests them.
 
Some very sensible points in this thread.

We live very close to a highly regarded public girls school where we intend sending our daughter. There's a boy's secondary school also quite near us that's quite good, but IMO not good enough. Also near us is a well-known private boys school (secondary) and we're planning on sending our son there. We think that these two schools are the best available for our kids. If they were both private or both public then that's where our kids would be going. On the fees issue, I think for most parents they should be doable if that's their number one priority. Actually, the yearly fee is often half the price of a creche! Also, there is quite a notice period for when the money is due (particularly if it's only private secondary education).
 
Truthseeker,it is a relief to find others who had parents like mine. Most of my peers at secondary school were all talk about parents 'making them study', being emotionally supportive about exams and college. I think there were probably more parents like ours but people didn't come out and say it. I didn't tell anyone at school about the extent of parents behaviour.

I think my parents didn't understand the benefits of college. When I would say 'Mary was in college', they would say 'What is she going to be?'. They were very suspicious of Business degrees because they could not see a clear career path from them in the same way as one would see a career path from engineering. I was the first of all my cousins to complete secondary. My parents were encouraging me to do a secretarial course, as I was considered 'bright'. All my cousins worked on building sites, in pubs and supermarkets, so they thought that to work in an office would be a great step up for me. Also, they may have been afraid that I would change, become all snobby and be ashamed of where I came from.

Thedaras, you seem to be exaggerating all the points that I am making and are reading more into them than what I intended. If I didn't know better I would say that you are attacking my post.

I said that it is possible to 'buy' a good leaving cert. If a student goes to a grind school with the best of teachers, and are taught about exam technique etc, then they will make the most of their natural ability and will get a good grade.

I never said that people with money don't have to do chores etc, and have a great life. That is a sweeping statement and shows that you are reading too much into what I am saying, and putting your own spin on it.

I think teenagers today are a bit spoilt because the parents make it very easy for them to study, ensure study is done, provide a quiet environment etc. This may do them no favours because when they are in college, (esp.if living away from home) they will have to do cooking, shopping, sports activities etc, and will have to timetable themselves to ensure study is done.
 
hastalavista said:
In what way may I ask?

I had a quick read and it seems a lot of waffle,

As to the comments by the school heads, well what do you expect?
Click to expand...

In the second part the author voices various incorrect accusations about fee paying schools without giving a rebuttal.
 
Complainer said:
Private Schools - are they worth it? [broken link removed]
Click to expand...

What I noticed from this article was that non-fee paying schools (examples given were Sion Hill (Blackrock), Muckross Park College (Donnybrook) and Gaelscoileanna Coláiste Íosagáin and Coláiste Eoin (Booterstown)) who are surrounded by fee-paying schools all seem to work very hard surrounded by such competition which is great for their pupils. It gives these schools a big incentive to compete.
 
As usual, I'll add my bit: I sent mine to a fee-paying school because it was Church of Ireland. There was otherwise only a choice of 2 RC schools.
 
buzybee said:
Truthseeker,it is a relief to find others who had parents like mine. Most of my peers at secondary school were all talk about parents 'making them study', being emotionally supportive about exams and college. I think there were probably more parents like ours but people didn't come out and say it. I didn't tell anyone at school about the extent of parents behaviour.

.
Click to expand...

Truthseeker, buzybee

You are not alone - a very high proportion of the kids who I went to secondary school with had parent with the same attitude. School had a lot of students from working class areas and is currently 'designated disadvantaged'.

There were a lot of people in my year in school who could have and should have gone to college, but didnt. Parents had the 'sure what would you want to go to college for' attitude and encouraged their children to take (usually low paid unskilled) jobs instead of going onto college. Several students in my year even go the points to go on, but took dead end jobs instead. Didnt help that some of the kids subscribed to this attitude and 'infected' their peers with it - perfect demonstration of how a combination of poor parental support and poor peer group can torpedo a kids chances.

Thankfully my parents were more supportive.

Unfortunately the attitude above is not a thing of the past. My wife teaches in a secondary school. She says you are more likely to get a parent coming up complaining that the school has put their son in an honours class than parents complaining that their son has been put back into pass. These parents complain that the school is putting too much pressure on the kids and that the kids should be out enjoying themselves instead of studying.
 
Csirl, you hit the nail on the head. My parents complained about me spending too much time on homework, and complained when I was put into 7 honours classes. (I wanted to do pass maths myself, as honours was time consuming). They wanted me to spend the time doing housework and farm work.

It saddens me to hear that other parents still have this attitude (don't bother about school and stay in min wage job for the rest of your life). I foolishly thought that things had moved on nowadays, and that most parents wanted a child to put in effort in all areas of life (school, sports, friends).

The annoying thing for me growing up, was that I felt the only person from my background (rural, farming) with parents like this. I couldn't get any support from like minded classmates, as all my friends were really 'middle class' (all into education, music lessons etc). The only classmates who had unsupportive parents (like mine) were people from 'rough' urban backgrounds who wore lots of makeup, smoked, dated boys etc. I was not allowed do any of these things, also my parents were against college. Therefore I didn't fit into any of the two groups.

I think there should be more support in the school for people with parents like mine. There is a stereotype that the unsupportive parents are generally from disadvantaged housing estates. There seems to be no mention ever of parents from rural areas with jobs/farming being unsupportive.
 
buzybee said:
There seems to be no mention ever of parents from rural areas with jobs/farming being unsupportive.
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Coming from a rural area my experience would have been that most people saw the value of education, or if individual hadnt a natural flair for it they tended to go into trades. V few "dead end jobs" in the sticks, so qualifications be they trade or academic, and living away from home (whether elsewhere in the country or abroad) seemed to be the norm. Even in some cases of big/progressive farmers (v few around) I've seen the kids go off into other areas where there was definitely a livelihood for at least 1 there
 
We were from a rural area but we were 10 miles away from one of the cities. It was an understood thing that you would get your supermarket/shop/factory job in the city and you could commute. Because of the low wages, and the fact that you would hand up a third of your earnings at home, you would not have enough money to rent/buy a house in town, so you would have to continue living at home long term. Parents would have an income from the wages being handed up every week.

I felt it was vitally important to try and get some education, so I could get a reasonable job and would not have to live at home well into my 20s. Parents were very strict about going away for weekends. Staying out late socialising would not be tolerated, even from a 20something paying for their keep.

It was very lucky we were in a commuting distance of a university town, as my parents made it crystal clear, that I could not go to college if I had to live away from home. We were getting a grant, but it does not cover the complete cost of living away from home.

The urban people I mentioned were from the city and had all conveniences laid up to them. The school concentrated on trying to get them to go to college even though they would fool around in class. The school tended to forget about genuine people who wanted to go to college but didn't fit the stereotype of disadvantaged.
 
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