Ryanair proposed takeover of Aer Lingus

Meccano said:

Begrudgery? Hatred?
The Irish have developed it to an artform!

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Exactly. Many Irish begrudge success stories like Michael O'Leary and Ryanair, probably Ireland most successful company grown over the last few decades.
Some Irish think the world , EC or whoever owes us a living. It was not this mentality - or indeed a trade union mentality - which made Ryanair the success it is today. A success for all concerned. Passengers, shareholders , staff I know who work there , staff who work in the tourism industry fuelled by cheap flights etc etc. Or maybe you would just prefer to stand up for the underworked , inefficient and overpaid Air Lingus employees of the 70's and 80's ? Those days are gone in todays world. Ryanair has 3 times more planes than Air Lingus, carries four times more passengers than Air Lingus, but yet Air Lingus has 13% more staff than Ryanair. Thank God for Ryanair, which helped destroy the monopoly of Air Fungus. I have no connection with any airline, apart from enjoying much lower airfares nowadays than in the early eighties, for example. I have also noticed staff more pleasant on Ryanair flights rather than Air Lingus - perhaps this will change if Air Lingus staff also have shares in their airline now.

rabbit said:

A success for all concerned. Passengers, shareholders , staff I know who work there , staff who work in the tourism industry fuelled by cheap flights etc etc.

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Laughable stuff....you've got some imagination. Ryanair is a sweatshop employer.
The terrible working conditions in the company are known worldwide. Most of their employees are contract workers - he runs a 'virtual airline' and uses the low number of permanent staff to spin his propoganda about inefficiencies at other companies.
Only 11 Irish cabin crew work in Dublin now - the rest are East Europeans who get no 'roster' but are told they are on permanent standby duty at the airport - they have to show up every morning at 6AM to see if there is any work for them. They are thus effectively non-permanent too.
There is no such thing as a guarenteed day-off, they are on permanent standby. Days off are notified last minute by phone.
The Irish pilots based in Dublin are all leaving - and being replaced by Brazilians who are allowed stay here only as long Ryanair will sponsor their work-permits. They are paid nothing during their months of training and then they're financially bonded afterward for 50K - this makes them effectively slave labour. They can't leave unless they pay up the 50K, they can't stay without Ryanairs approval for the work permit, and they receive no salary during training - they are in the same situation as the Share-Croppers in the US depression in the 30's.
This is the company who threatened to fire any staff member who plugged their mobile phone in at the office (stealing electricity!) and who's boss advised them to steal pens from other offices or hotel rooms so he didn't have to supply them.
They sack workers summarily if they attempt to form any kind of union - usually picking the 'ring leaders' to make an example of. They have been succesfully sued by same employees for unfair dismissal.
Ryanair recently fought yet another lengthy high court battle with several of their pilots, which they again lost. During his judgement, the Judge rejected as baseless and false the evidence of Ryanair director of personnel Mr.Eddie Wilson and considered Mr.Warwick Brady to have given false evidence.
Perjury, in plain language! I'm still waiting for the DPP to take it further!
Ryanairs costs were about 1 million euro.

Oh, and lets not forget the passengers! Especially the lady who won 'free flights for life' from Ryanair and was then told to take a hike when she tried to claim her flights! She ended up in the courts too, and won!

And don't forget about the wheelchair-bound passengers who were turned away and told they weren't wanted because Ryanair refused to carry them and their wheelchairs.
Another court case - which Ryanair lost yet again.
But hey - no problem - they simply put a 'wheelchair levy' on all tickets to cover the cost, so now you pay! They even call it a 'wheelchair levy' just so the money grubbers out there know who to blame for the expense!

As you can see, Ryanair have a terible time in the courts - they always seem to pick the wrong horse. On the other hand - sweating your victims through the high court (and maybe an appeal or two) is usually a good enough scare tactic to make sure you keep the vast majority of them annoying croppies lying down.
And whats a few million on lawyers fees when you have billions in the bank and the victim only has a 1 bed apartment in Swords? If it keeps the rest on their knees, its money well spent.

While they'll waste a fortune pursuing under represented and isolated staff members through the courts, the salaries are rotten and there are no pensions provisions.

But heck - he leaves 500 euro behind a bar in Mullingar for the clientele to get p***ed and that shows he's a great guy?
Maybe if you drink in O'Learys local in Mullingar! Maybe if you're easy bought, and have zero scruples!

You call this a good deal? Ryanair a great employer? What utter tosh! Get real!

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Or maybe you would just prefer to stand up for the underworked , inefficient and overpaid Air Lingus[sic] employees of the 70's and 80's ? Those days are gone in todays world.

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Yeah...so I keep reminding you. Funny how it doesn't sink in.

Ryanair has 3 times more planes than Air Lingus[sic], carries four times more passengers than Air Lingus[sic], but yet Air Lingus[sic] has 13% more staff than Ryanair.

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Whats does this have to do with the price of cheese?
QANTAS has double the number of aircraft as Ryanair....does that mean something to you? Because if its just willy waving - you lose.

By the way, it's AER Lingus - with an 'E'.
Seriously, how credible are your opinions when you can't even spell the name of the Irish National Carrier?

The Irish National Carrier is now Ryanair. It has 3 times more planes than Aer Fungus ( call it what you like in whatever language you speak ), carries four times more passengers than Aer Fungus , but yet Aer Fungus has 13% more staff than Ryanair.

Meccano said:

QANTAS has double the number of aircraft as Ryanair....does that mean something to you?

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So what? Nobody mentioned Australia, or Qantas, or the population difference between Ireland and Australia, or the vast size of Australia etc etc.

Anyway, from the Qantas website :

You seem to have difficulty understanding english...is it your native tongue?
If not, I sincerely apologise to you.

Let me try again.

As much as possible, Ryanair does not employ permanent staff.
They have as many, if not more staff than Aer Lingus, but they choose to twist that fact to fool unwary people (such as yourself, unfortunately).

The truth is that Ryanair have many hundreds more employees than they care to admit to.
For example, only 20% of their pilots are in permanent positions - the rest are contractors whose numbers they choose to ignore.
So do you.

Perhaps if you consider the fact that aircraft do not fly themselves - nor do passengers board themselves, feed and water themselves, clean the cabins, load and unload bags, or fuel the aircraft - you would realise that logically if they have more aircraft they must have the employees to operate them! Doh!

If you call Ryanair a 'success story' I would say - keep it!
The world is better off without ignorant shysters, liars and bullys who think money is the be all and end all, and that they can use it to allow them to break the law as it pleases them and crush anyone who stands against them.
That to me is tyranny, not good business. There are many other LoCo carriers in europe who provide a friendlier and better service than Ryanair. Aer Lingus for instance.

PS...Please stop using Capital Letters and Large Text. Its already been pointed out (by Sunny) that this equates to shouting.

PPS. The Irish National Carrier is still Aer Lingus. And thats the fact.

PPPS. QANTAS is a Long Haul carrier. Ryanair is a high frequency cattle car operation. Hence the difference in passenger numbers, and also the reason why Ryanair will shut down Irelands long haul services if it gets control of the National Carrier. I realise subtleties like this may be difficult for you to understand if you aren't familiar with airlines and flight operations - or can't correctly spell certain airlines names.

Meccano said:

PS...Please stop using Capital Letters and Large Text. Its already been pointed out (by Sunny) that this equates to shouting.

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I copied and pasted the statistics from the Qantas website, which included a four worded heading in capital letters - big deal.

To get back to the point, Ryanair, being Irelands largest airline, carries much more passengers than Aer Fungus. Four times more actually. It has three times more planes. Where do all the people "work" in Aer Fungus ? It still has a sizeable catering department for example, even though it buys in all of its sandwiches etc. I do not care when I travel if the people I come across in airlines, in bus companies, in taxies, in fast food restaurants are permanent or franchisees or independent or black or white. As long as they do the job properly and safely. Ryanair has a 100% safety record, unlike Aer Lingus. Ryanair is by all accounts more efficient. Ryanair is chosen by more and more consumers each year. Ryanair has a healthier track record re. shareholder satisfaction. Ryanair was not bailed out by the Irish taxpayer time and time again.

Ah well I suppose, the civil service mentality - like begrudgery - is hard to erase from work practices completely.

Meccano said:

Ryanair will shut down Irelands long haul services if it gets control of the National Carrier.

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Not if its profitable. I realise subtleties like this may be difficult for you to understand if you aren't familiar with airlines and flight operations, basic economics and common sense in todays world. In fact there has been speculation than trans-atlantic services would be expanded, and possibly linking up with south west airlines, to the mutual benefit of both airlines, who would help feed each other.

Where do all the people "work" in Aer Fungus ?

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Why do all the people who work for Ryanair not appear in their reports?

It still has a sizeable catering department for example, even though it buys in all of its sandwiches etc

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Aer Lingus has Fully Catered long-haul Business Class and Economy service which requires daily catering for over 2,000 passengers.
Ryanair has no Business class - Cattle Class only - no catering required.
Guess you missed that important difference.

Not if its profitable.

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Quote from O'Leary in last weeks newspapers "We don't do long-haul".
From the horses mouth.

You seem preoccupied with the number of aircraft Ryanair has as a measure of its success.
The measure used by airlines is yield.
Yield is measured in RPK's. Look that up.

QANTAS Yield in RPK's 10% + and increasing.
Ryanair Yield in RPK's 5.5% and falling.

QANTAS profit 2005 - 775Million USD
Ryanair Profit 2005 - 459 M USD

Ryanair doesn't even feature on the list of Top Ten airlines by Total Scheduled Passenger-Kilometers Flown in 2005 or Top Ten Total Scheduled Freight Tonne/Kilometers Flown in 2005.

It is 31st in the world by fleet size.

Ryanair is a medium sized fish in a small UK/Ireland/European Short Haul passenger market - it is limited by its model to always remaining a niche market player in a very limited market. Its ultimate growth prospects are thus terminally stunted. Its only hope for further growth is to destroy all competition until it becomes a monolithic monopoly dominating that marketplace. A prospect which gives any sane person a shiver of utter disgust.

Meccano said:

Why do all the people who work for Ryanair not appear in their reports?

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The people who work for Ryanair do appear in their reports. All employees do pay prsi etc and are accounted for. Unlike Aer Fungus, all employees in Ryanair do actually work efficiently and earn their money.

Meccano said:

Aer Lingus has Fully Catered long-haul Business Class and Economy service which requires daily catering for over 2,000 passengers.
Ryanair has no Business class - Cattle Class only - no catering required.
Guess you missed that important difference.

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I never saw cattle on an aeroplane. I think the reason Ryanair staff are generally thought of as friendlier and better than Aer Fungus is because many Ryanair staff have shares in Ryanair, and are pround to be part of a rapidly growing, successful and efficient Irish company.

Meccano said:

Quote from O'Leary in last weeks newspapers "We don't do long-haul".
From the horses mouth..

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He is correct. Ryanair at present do not do long haul. However, their longest route is increasing, and no businessman or company rules out what may happen in the future. In the event of Ryanait taking over Aer Lingus, do you seriously think he would close the north Atlantic routes if they were profitable, and if they were helping to feed his European hubs ?

Meccano said:

You seem preoccupied with the number of aircraft Ryanair has as a measure of its success.

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No I am not. I merely pointed out how much more successful Ryanair is compared to Aer Lingus, in terms of size, number of passengers carried, efficiency, shareholder satisfaction , growth etc etc

rabbit said:

I think the reason Ryanair staff are generally thought of as friendlier and better than Aer Fungus is because many Ryanair staff have shares in Ryanair, and are pround to be part of a rapidly growing, successful and efficient Irish company.

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In all seriousness I don't know where you got that one from. Most ofthe Ryanair cabin crew I have spoken to wouldn't be too complimentary of MOL.

jdwex said:

In all seriousness I don't know where you got that one from. Most ofthe Ryanair cabin crew I have spoken to wouldn't be too complimentary of MOL.

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LOL Do you fly Ryanair and ask the cabin crew what they think of the head of their company ? How many Ryanair employees have you questioned on their leader, and is that quantity a representative sample do you think ?
Besides, MOB and the rest of his team at Ryanair answer to their shareholders and customers at the end of the day.
Morale and attitudes within Ryanair between cabin crew and their leader / chief executive is important, but what people want is cheap and efficient and safe air travel when it comes to short haul routes. They had enough of paying Air Fungus £ 200 to fly to England in the 70's and 80's , when money was money.
As I said, the reason Ryanair staff are generally thought of as friendlier and better than Aer Fungus is because many Ryanair staff have shares in Ryanair, and are pround to be part of a rapidly growing, successful and efficient Irish company. They have a vested interest ....hence one of the reasons for the rapid growth in Ryanair over the years. If you give someone a share of the business, they will usually work harder and be more efficient. That is why capitalism works and communism does not.
It is one of the reasons our semi-state companies generally - and I say generally - do not make money, and are more often than not poor value for the consumer as well as their shareholder - you and me. Its fine however if you are one of their overpaid and underworked employees.
Statistics show the public sector is well overpaid compared with the private sector. Ask Eddie Hobbs, he touched on that subject on TV there recently.

rabbit said:

LOL Do you fly Ryanair and ask the cabin crew what they think of the head of their company ? How many Ryanair employees have you questioned on their leader, and is that quantity a representative sample do you think ?
As I said, the reason Ryanair staff are generally thought of as friendlier and better than Aer Fungus is because many Ryanair staff have shares in Ryanair, and are pround to be part of a rapidly growing, successful and efficient Irish company.

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I have met plenty of cabin crew socially. As for the second paragraph - it is hogwash.

jdwex said:

I have met plenty of cabin crew socially.

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Good for you. If they cry in their beer about their boss, why do they not go work for another boss ? Or set up an airline themselves ?
Any Ryanair people I met held their company and boss in high esteem. Ryanair is a successful Irish company, grown from nothing over a few decades. We could have done with more of them. Remember the days of the Aer Lingus monopoly? Fair play to Ryanair.

Most of what rabbit says is indeed hogwash. Recycled and endlessly repeated hogwash, straight from the hog pen of Ryanair HQ.
He can repeat it as often as he likes, but the whole world knows what life in Ryanair is like for its employees, and rabbits hilarious and hysterically repeated denials merely serve to emphasise his myopia.

You don't have to be an employee to be a victim of Ryanairs ill treatment - simply try getting a refund.

Anyhow, enough of his nonsense. Its getting boring and repetitive.

I've read several of the Sunday newspapers now, and even those which are usually pro-O'Leary have analyses declaring the pendulum is swinging against his takeover bid succeeding.
I forecast that my own prediction will come to pass - he will sit on 20% and use it to frustrate and sabotage the long-haul expansion plans Aer Lingus had for next year. He will additionally dump capacity into the Irish market in an attempt to 'bust' Aer Lingus on the shorthaul market.
personal invective removed by aj

Thread closed.

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