Ryanair Industrial Action

Firefly , I can only reiteratethe primary function of Trade Unions which is to protect & enhance where possible the terms and conditions of it's members , one man's restrictive practises are another man's hard fought for terms & conditions
As for the Glass it's demise was purely due to market forces - the demand for luxury items plummeted in the US allied to the appalling management decision to invest in Wedgewood , I felt really sorry for Tony O'Reilly who lost countless millions.
As for strong employment law I think I'm right in saying that Ryanair were able to bypass such legislation for decades.
You're surely not telling me that our employment laws would have ultimately had the same effect as Trade Unions in negotiating pay increases for Luas , Dublin bus & Iarnrod Eireann employees as well as ameliorating the pay cuts suffered by public sector employees , I would suggest that such a viewpoint is more than a trifle naive.
I wonder how the meeting with Impact ( surely not the most appropriate name for an organisation representing pilots ! ) is going ?
 
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Deiseblue said:
I can only reiteratethe primary function of Trade Unions which is to protect & enhance where possible the terms and conditions of it's members
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A agree with that and it's why I'm usually sceptical when I hear unions wanting this or that to improve the lot for the customer.

Deiseblue said:
You're surely not telling me that our employment laws would have ultimately had the same effect as Trade Unions in negotiating pay increases for Luas , Dublin bus & Iarnrod Eireann employees as well as ameliorating the pay cuts suffered by public sector employees , I would suggest that such a viewpoint is more than a trifle naive.
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I am not and as you say, because of unions wages are higher than they otherwise would be. The point I am making is that these higher wages have to be paid by someone...either the owner gets a lower return (and may have to reduce staff / staff hours, relocate or close down) or the customer pays through higher prices / lower services.

I'm not arguing that people shouldn't get a fair wage. I am arguing that a fair wage is the market rate.
 
Firefly said:
A agree with that and it's why I'm usually sceptical when I hear unions wanting this or that to improve the lot for the customer.


I am not and as you say, because of unions wages are higher than they otherwise would be. The point I am making is that these higher wages have to be paid by someone...either the owner gets a lower return (and may have to reduce staff / staff hours, relocate or close down) or the customer pays through higher prices / lower services.

I'm not arguing that people shouldn't get a fair wage. I am arguing that a fair wage is the market rate.
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You are assuming this is about wages but it’s not. Ryanair already tried buying off staff and failed. This is about years and years of disgraceful work practices, taking advantage of European legislation, treating employees like nothing more than parts and a sneering disrespectful attitude by their CEO and management team who thinks his employees should be lighting candles and worshiping him for their amazing jobs. So Suck on it Michael O’Leary. You aren’t exactly rushing to do media interviews now are you. And by the way I think Ryanair and Michael O’Leary are an amazing story but somewhere along the way they decided that their staff didn’t deserve respect. Well as I said earlier, everybody doing any sort of job deserves some respect and not to have to their efforts belittled.
 
I've heard it all now . . . . the unions are closing businesses. Great way to lose membership and loss to union coffers. Trade Unions are not self destructive, you know. Make no mistake about it . . . . Bad Management closes businesses. Bad managers blame the unions.
 
Sunny said:
You are assuming this is about wages but it’s not. Ryanair already tried buying off staff and failed. This is about years and years of disgraceful work practices, taking advantage of European legislation, treating employees like nothing more than parts
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Would you have a link for this?


Sunny said:
a sneering disrespectful attitude by their CEO and management team
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Sunny said:
So Suck on it Michael O’Leary
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Pot / Kettle perhaps?

Sunny said:
everybody doing any sort of job deserves some respect and not to have to their efforts belittled.
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I agree. I think it's in the best interests of everyone concerned if the workers are treated correctly.
 
Leper said:
I've heard it all now . . . . the unions are closing businesses.
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Hi Leper,

You are taking it out of context - I said "and may have to reduce staff / staff hours, relocate or close down". Closing down is always is the last resort.

Firefly.
 
In the context of working conditions two UK parliamentary committees are now going to investigate following damning allegations over employee working conditions.
 
Deiseblue said:
In the context of working conditions two UK parliamentary committees are now going to investigate following damning allegations over employee working conditions.
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I'm glad to hear this to be honest. Again though, this will be conducted on legal grounds I would imagine and that's why employment law is so important.
 
Leper said:
I've heard it all now . . . . the unions are closing businesses.
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Waterford Crystal closed because it couldn't react to changing market forces. That was largely due to Union intransigence and massively high wages. When the same thing happened to Newbridge Silver they could react and transformed their business.
I have seen competitors close because of the unwillingness of unionised employees to embrace new technology as my industry moved from manual to computerised manufacturing. Team Aerlingus closed because of the Unions.

Leper said:
Trade Unions are not self destructive, you know.
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Really? Is that why so few people in the private sector are in one?


Leper said:
Make no mistake about it . . . . Bad Management closes businesses. Bad managers blame the unions.
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That's true but universally true; unions also close businesses. Weak management which is bullied by unions make decisions which close businesses as well.
 
Firefly said:
I'm glad to hear this to be honest. Again though, this will be conducted on legal grounds I would imagine and that's why employment law is so important.
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Just because something might be legal doesn't make it morally right or acceptable. Employment law like tax law will never be able to cover all scenarios of people trying to take advantage. Look at how the employees and concession holders in Cleary's were treated when that was closed down. Telling cabin crew that they if want to be paid for the winter, they will have to move to a different country at their own expense isn't right but they are entitled to do it. Telling staff that they will charged an 'administration fee' for resigning is not right. Charging staff for airport ID's is not right. Not paying staff for working but not in the air is not right. Zero hour contracts are not right. Putting crews working away from their home base up in crappy hotels that they often have to organise themselves is not right. Threatening staff who don't sell enough is not right unless they are employed as sales people but they are not.

I was on a flight recently to the West Coast of the USA so obviously not Ryanair so all airlines are the same. The cabin crew were forced to eat their food during their break either standing up in the galley or sitting out on the crew seats in front of all the passengers as the airline had removed all the crew seating from the galley area. That is just a complete lack of respect and common decency. It's not even about money. The money they saved in fuel won't make a difference to the airfare charged. It is just an example of a company that thinks so little of their staff that they think they can treat them with such contempt.
 
Sunny said:
I was on a flight recently to the West Coast of the USA so obviously not Ryanair so all airlines are the same. The cabin crew were forced to eat their food during their break either standing up in the galley or sitting out on the crew seats in front of all the passengers as the airline had removed all the crew seating from the galley area. That is just a complete lack of respect and common decency. It's not even about money. The money they saved in fuel won't make a difference to the airfare charged. It is just an example of a company that thinks so little of their staff that they think they can treat them with such contempt.
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Would you mind naming the airline in question?
 
Ryanair sign up to cabin crew Union recognition in Italy .
Augurs well for widespread Union recognition within the company
 
Sunny said:
Ah yes but it is the French Air Traffic controllers you need to worry about!!
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Very true. Remember when I was a kid we had to drive back from the Med to Roscoff via the Massif Central as the truckers were on strike and blocked the motorways....Plus ca change!
 
Great to hear that directly employed cabin crew in Ireland are to be represented by Fórsa and Ryanair recognize Fórsa as being such employees representatives.
Baggage handlers next hopefully
 
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