Sophrosyne
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Brilliant!
Russian Foreign Policy
- Thread starter Purple
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Duke of Marmalade
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I hope MM behaves himself or Emperor Trump will appoint one of his racehorses as Ambassador to Ireland.
Howth Head
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Obama in 2014 following the annexation of Crimea....not a million miles from Trump's view.
www.theguardian.com
It was clear Obama had no intention of being drawn into rash action or any kind of dangerous confrontation with Putin over Ukraine. "This is not another cold war that we're entering into. The United States and Nato do not seek any conflict with Russia," Obama said. "Now is not the time for bluster … There are no easy answers, no military solution."
Obama also essentially rubber-stamped the Russians taking over of Crimea stating that they had "legitimate concerns" there, while also cautioning against too many sanctions on Russia in case it would impact US interests.
“We’re continually hopeful Russia walks through the door of diplomacy and works with all of us to try to resolve this issue in a peaceful way,” he said. Obama has said Russia has legitimate concerns in Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and is home to a vital Russian naval base.
Barack Obama: no cold war over Crimea
US president insists military solution not an option, saying pressure and diplomacy are the way forward in Crimea dispute
www.theguardian.com
Obama also essentially rubber-stamped the Russians taking over of Crimea stating that they had "legitimate concerns" there, while also cautioning against too many sanctions on Russia in case it would impact US interests.
“We’re continually hopeful Russia walks through the door of diplomacy and works with all of us to try to resolve this issue in a peaceful way,” he said. Obama has said Russia has legitimate concerns in Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and is home to a vital Russian naval base.
It is a million miles from Trump's view. Trump doesn't care if all of Ukraine falls to Russia and becomes another Belarus, and a launchpad for further Russian aggression and threatening stance against other European and EU countries. All he cares about is a purported minerals deal no doubt with lots of opportunities for grift for him or his cronies.
The joke doing the rounds is that given the interest in minerals, MM will present a bottle of TK red lemonade instead of the traditional bowl of shamrock.
He's from Cork, has to be Tanora ! It'll blend in nicely with Trump's colour
Howth Head
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Nah...Obama has always seen Ukraine as more Russian than European. He didn't really care all that much about it...
www.atlanticcouncil.org
Obama Sees Ukraine as Putin's Client State
Russia’s invasion of Crimea in early 2014, and its decision to use force to buttress the rule of its client Bashar al-Assad, have been cited by Obama’s critics as proof that the post-red-line world no longer fears America. So when I talked with the president in the Oval Office in late January, I...
www.atlanticcouncil.org
The content of that article doesn't match the headline. That is not a statement of Obama's view, but seems to be a framing of how Putin approached it e.g.
Putin acted in Ukraine in response to a client state that was about to slip out of his grasp. And he improvised in a way to hang on to his control there.
That's not Obama saying he sees Ukraine as a client state.
And contradicted by this:
“Part of what happened was, both myself and also [German Chancellor Angela] Merkel, who I give enormous credit for, had to pull in a lot of other Europeans kicking and screaming to impose the sanctions that we did and to prevent Putin from continuing through the Donbass and through the rest of Ukraine,” he added.
Obama said that the sense of identity and ability to push back against Russia developed in Ukraine after the 2014 annexation, and that identity and ability is what led to the fierce resistance now.
“We challenged Putin with the tools that we had at the time, given where Ukraine was,” he said.
Putin acted in Ukraine in response to a client state that was about to slip out of his grasp. And he improvised in a way to hang on to his control there.
That's not Obama saying he sees Ukraine as a client state.
And contradicted by this:
“Part of what happened was, both myself and also [German Chancellor Angela] Merkel, who I give enormous credit for, had to pull in a lot of other Europeans kicking and screaming to impose the sanctions that we did and to prevent Putin from continuing through the Donbass and through the rest of Ukraine,” he added.
Obama said that the sense of identity and ability to push back against Russia developed in Ukraine after the 2014 annexation, and that identity and ability is what led to the fierce resistance now.
“We challenged Putin with the tools that we had at the time, given where Ukraine was,” he said.
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Duke of Marmalade
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Great to see Canada breaking ranks and not kowtowing to Musk/Trump.
The honeymoon with the markets is well and truly over
. Even the bitcoin cultists are having doubts.
When Russia secures its Victory Plan courtesy of Musk/Trump, the writing will surely be on the wall for the Emperor. Only a matter of time before the Republican Party eliminates him either literally as happened to Julius but probably bloodless, with Little Marco in the part of Brutus. Elon will be a very poor Mark Anthony.
The honeymoon with the markets is well and truly over
. Even the bitcoin cultists are having doubts. When Russia secures its Victory Plan courtesy of Musk/Trump, the writing will surely be on the wall for the Emperor. Only a matter of time before the Republican Party eliminates him either literally as happened to Julius but probably bloodless, with Little Marco in the part of Brutus. Elon will be a very poor Mark Anthony.
@Duke of Marmalade, I hope you're right but I doubt it as so far the Trump Cult acolytes have shown themselves to be a bunch of spineless sycophants.
Duke of Marmalade
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Indeed, and Julius Caesar thought he had a devoted Senate. We live in hope.
Looks like putin is trying to wiggle out of the ceasefire deal. Trump will have to bring out the stick but will he? Trump has invested so much political capital in this he cannot walk away from Ukraine. Also it can't really be blamed on Ukraine, the only stick that will work is escalating military aid to Ukraine with much more potent weapons
Trump doesn't care about Ukraine. It is a bargaining chip to be used in order to further US interests in the Middle East and Asia.
The best outcome for Ukraine now is to agree to Russia's terms and hope that Putin will keep his side of the deal. He won't and Ukraine will end up as a vassal State of Russia.
The only real question now is will Europe be able to rearm fast enough to stop Russia from invading anywhere else.
We'll be neutral in the face of evil as usual, other than bluster and pontification.
I think any country bordering with Russia needs a 50km border with trenches, mines, anti-aircraft rockets and lots & lots of drones
What about countries with massive territorial waters through which critical data infrastructure flows? Should they have a navy and air force capable of at least monitoring those waters?
I think so.
I welcome increased spending on defence, but I'm not a fan of spending X% of GDP - the money could go on anything (wages & pensions etc). I think we need to spend whatever it takes to make it not Russia's while invading. It's like living a few doors down from a psycho neighbour and having a front door made of cardboard. It doesn't matter a joy what you spend unless you fix the door!
I also don't buy the argument that it was the prospect of joining NATO that resulted in the Russians invading Ukraine. Sweden and Finland weren't attacked...why not...becuase they have very capable military....just not worth it for Russia....
This point isn't highlighted enough IMO.
Despite his Imperialistic posturing Putin just wants the Soviet Union back, not the Russian Empire. He might be concerned that while he's busy fighting the Turks the Swedish might invade again.
Charles and Peter, all sounds very 'civilized'!