RTE Leaders Debate - Claire Byrne live - Monday 15th

[Purple]

Baloney. Sf are the only party that are actively persuing it. Anyone can claim that any td supports anything. Wheres your proof that all tds "support" a united ireland and please define what you mean by support?

I suspect what you mean to say is "all tds would probably like a united ireland and also to win the lotto"

I’m not a FF voter but they are a republican party and always have been. They, like the Shinners, want a united Ireland but unlike the Shinners they were not willing to murder children and pensioners to get it. Gerry Adams has spent most of his adult life at the top table of an organisation which did not recognise this state and saw the Gardai, Army, Judges, Prison Officers and politicians of this country at legitimate targets. I fully acknowledge that Adams was a major force, if not the major force, in bringing the crazies into mainstream politics but he has too many questions to answer, too many skeletons in the closet, or buried in beaches, to be allowed to be part of the government of a democratic state.

Ok aside from the ira and all that Jazz and gerrys apparent poor evonomics..whats wrong with sf?

Your question (I’m paraphrasing) is “other than the credibility of their leader, their past association with terrorists, and their economic policies what’s wrong with SF?”. Is that not enough?

 

[thedaddyman]

don't twist my words daddy man where have I said anywhere that murder was tripe. what I said was to constantly bring up the ira when discussing sf is for me very tired old tripe. this is not debate on ira activity. if you want we can set up a separate thread and debate that.

I'm not twisting your words. This is the problem with SF. They want to wash their hands of the past when it suits then politically and then play the glorious republicans for another audience when it suits. . SF themselves have not forgotten this tripe when it suits them. SF are running convicted members of the IRA as candidates. Look at the Sinn Fein Bookshop site where you can still buy books and posters eulogising members of the IRA

If you follow the logic of what you are saying about ignoring the past then should we perhaps also ignore FF when they were last in power and stop bringing up old tripe about Brian Cowan

 

[Leo]

Ok aside from the ira and all that Jazz and gerrys apparent poor evonomics..whats wrong with sf?

And all that jazz? Pretty frivolous for an organisation responsible for so much pain and death. And let's not pretend they're part of history.

The fact the Murphy clearly has some kind of influence over the leadership?

If they wanted to be taken seriously as a party who wanted to make real change, why have they not done so while in power in the north? Why have they done the exact opposite? And why with a sniff of election success here have they ground the political institutions in the north to a halt so they won't be caught making more unpopular decisions?

 

[Purple]

And why with a sniff of election success here have they ground the political institutions in the north to a halt so they won't be caught making more unpopular decisions?

Excellent point and shows that they are willing to hurt the people they claim to represent in their pursuit of power.

 

[Firefly]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...d-20k-after-kidnapping-mans-son-34460404.html

The Co Wexford businessman says he has been subjected to a slew of threats and intimidation from the gang, who claim to be members of the Provisional IRA.

"When they called first, they said they wanted €20,000. When they didn't get that, they rang 10 days later and wanted €2,500 within 24 hours."

"I told them they wouldn't be getting a penny from me. Then [they] came back looking for €4,500, or they would kill my son. They came on Wednesday night and broke the window and lit the petrol bomb outside... It could have been a lot more serious."

The businessman's son was also grabbed by four masked men from a street two weeks ago. "They threw him in the back of a van, tied him up, gave him a bit of a beating and dumped him in a forest."


And who said SF / IRA weren't pro-business?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Baloney. Sf are the only party that are actively persuing it. Anyone can claim that any td supports anything. Wheres your proof that all tds "support" a united ireland and please define what you mean by support?

I suspect what you mean to say is "all tds would probably like a united ireland and also to win the lotto"

Apologies, I believe Shane Ross may be suspect on a United Ireland. It makes me kinda shudder to hear you say that SF are "actively" pursuing a UI. I thought they gave that up in return for the release of Garda killers and Mercs and Percs at Stormont.

The fact is, just as the criminals of 1916 ensured the partition of Ireland (Canada initially got a wishy washy dominion status i.e. Home Rule but are now fully independent), the terrorist campaign of SF/IRA made acceptance of a UI by Ulster protestants remoter than ever. Their antics since coming to power (speaking Irish in Stormont debates etc.) has alienated further that community. In short, SF are the greatest block to a democratic acceptance of a UI, and BTW for that we owe them a deep gratitude.

 

[noproblem]

What would all the Catholics and Nationalists in the North have done if they didn't have the SF/IRA to back them up, where could they have gone for help, who would have helped them? People don't forget and FF and FG plus Lab and all the others ranting on about Adam's being in the IRA or whatever is total rubbish in their eyes. The people who rattle on about this were never in the SF camp and never will be, but the raving on about it is sending some disillusioned FF/FG supporters into their arms and will continue to do so. The same thing will happen if FF/FG go into Goverment together and make SF even stronger. Just remember that SF supporters won't leave that party unlike the other parties supporters. I'm well aware of what happened in the Northern troubles and I'm not a SF supporter either, but I guess there's a teeny little bit of SF/IRA blood in most of our genes even though we might like to deny it.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What would all the Catholics and Nationalists in the North have done if they didn't have the SF/IRA to back them up

They wouldn't have turned a peaceful student civil rights protest into a violent terrorist campaign for an all Ireland socialist republic. As it happened the IRA hijacked civil rights movement provoked a protestant backlash and 30 years misery for everybody in the North. But hey that's all tired old tripe and jazz. Sure we were all equally at fault.

Anyway why such concern about SF? They are 17% in this morning's polls. PaddyPower reckons they will get 25 out of 159 seats. Nobody will talk to them accept a few looney tunes and a few looney FF civil warriors.

 

[Gerry Canning]

no problem.

You are, with respect, more than a little naiive.
1. None of the Nationalist Parties in 1971 felt that bombing was (backing them up)
2. After 30 years of a horrible hurtful mess ,it is great to see SF in (normal) politics.
3. Most in 26 forget that in N Ire the populace come from a position where they are UK positive and not Republicans. Down South we may wish them to be Republican Leaning but wishes don,t change things.
4. For better or worse the NI statelet is after 100 years firmly enscounced as an integral part of UK.
5. SF have accepted in the Good Friday plebiscite that Partition is the wish of the Irish People UNTIL freely agreed otherwise by all.

I feel we have accepted an ( ALL IRISH REPUBLIC) as a wish list to be worked towards, not bombed towards.

It is a pity it took Paisley/Adams and their ilk 30 years of misery to see this .
That said I am very glad they have .

 

[cork]

It is a pity it took Paisley/Adams and their ilk 30 years of misery to see this .
That said I am very glad they have .

I think the continued existence of Provo Criminality a factor that I find difficult.

The complete absence of anyone in SF to express an opinion that is contrary to Adams is odd.

 

[jim]

Maybe im the only one on AAM that sees the positves in SF as opposed to the (granted) many negatives. I like that they are a change of what we had, I like that are perusing a UI (democratically as opposed to undemocratically), I like Gerry adams persona (hes a bit of a laugh, I want that in the countries leader, I think its representative of us as a people).

I can counter argue all of the points made above, believe it or not, but I just don't have the time or energy to get into it. suffice to say....lets all respect each others views and opinions whether or not you like or agree with them and we ll leave it at that. that's all...just respect. im going to admit right now that I have never voted, for 1 reason or another and I don't have an affiliation to any party at all in spite of what you might think. im just looking for a change and to shake things up. I think sf, independents, social democrats etc represent this. sure they might have silly ideas and policies, sure they might have shady pasts (or very shady pasts...or violent pasts, or criminal pasts, or terrorist pasts - - -call it whatever I don't mind its beside the point im trying to make).

people politics and policies all change. one has to accept this and not dwell on the past whether it was the glorious past or the horrible past. live and let live.two wrongs don't make a right. look deep within yourself and seek the truth, always ask yourself the question why, why did this happen? and most of all think for yourself, don't be led by the media and populist views.

to summarise - Lads, Get over it, get over the past and move on. if you cannot do that then so be it. you just have to accept that some people think differently to you and you should respect that. you are entitled to bring up the past in defence of your views but why not let the past be in the past, why not change your viewpoint and see things differently? its just a thought...

thanks.

 

[Leo]

to summarise - Lads, Get over it, get over the past and move on. if you cannot do that then so be it. you just have to accept that some people think differently to you and you should respect that. you are entitled to bring up the past in defence of your views but why not let the past be in the past, why not change your viewpoint and see things differently? its just a thought...

Their ongoing support for criminality isn't in the past.

What they're currently doing in power in the north isn't in the past.

 

[jim]

so be it leo....im not sure if they "support" criminality. I would suggest they don't but anyway....................

what are they currently doing in power in the north that's so bad?....queue the media driven brain washed second hand stuff you've heard/read elsewhere...I don't buy that stuff.

take a step back and think before you speak, think for yourself....stop trying to defend why you don't support sf....you don't support them and leave it at that....im not trying to sell them. im just trying to promote the idea of thinking for yourself and questioning what you read and hear. ask yourself the question what is it that you want...and then vote accordingly..

 

[T McGibney]

what are they currently doing in power in the north that's so bad?....queue the media driven brain washed second hand stuff you've heard/read elsewhere...I don't buy that stuff.

Primary school closures, devised & implemented by a Sinn Fein minister, have been wretched.

 

[jim]

Yeah maybe...i dont know anymore...sf record is hard to defend and i certainly cant do it.

Still though, great bunch of lads.

 

[Purple]

Yeah maybe...i dont know anymore...sf record is hard to defend and i certainly cant do it.

Still though, great bunch of lads.

So lets get this straight; the Shinners bloody and murderous past should be left in the past, despite the fact they are haven't left it there themselves. Their economic policies are daft and destructive. Their current track record in Northern Ireland is disastrous and you cannot defend their record in general but sure they are a great bunch of lads and you are going to vote for them... for a change... because change is good... a major outbreak of an antibiotic resistant strain of the Black Death would also be a change. Would you also be in favour of that?

 

[Purple]

On the democratic credentials of the Shinners; they spent over 30 years murdering people in Ireland, Britain and the mainland (most notably Germany) despite the vast majority of people in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Britain and everywhere else being totally and utterly opposed to their actions. How can we now believe them when they purport to accept democracy? Is it not more plausible that they regard it simply as a tool and those new supporters who ignore their past as useful idiots?

 

[Leper]

There is one poster here who probably sits on a bar stool on a Friday evening wearing a Celtic jersey with "Éire 32" written on the back. His daughter is probably called Erin Saoirse and no matter what the conversation is he will bring up the Provies. Gallant and brave from a bar stool. Despite some of the sense printed here he does not want any part of it. He has my pity.

 

[Dermot]

SF and a lot of their supporters closeness to criminals leaves a lot to be desired and in my view renders them unsuitable for Government in the Republic. SF have just a grudging tolerance for Law and order and especially for those who implement it.
I know honest decent businessmen in NI who tell me that you do not go in opposition to businesses which are effectively backed by people who are well known SF supporters. This is absolutely not good enough. It would not be good for your health as good as SF say the health service is in NI. Gerry's preferred health system is "private in USA"
SF would lead you to believe that politically they have huge control in NI yet over 75% of those who voted in May 2015 elections in NI did not vote for them.

 

[jim]

Yous are all priceless. Can we not jus keep this jovial and civil? Sure its all just a bit of craic anyway! Dont take things so seriously...thats my last piece of advice. Yous are lucky i treated yous to a few nuggets of wisdom above - see if you can pick them out....Time will tell.