Romanian beggars

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Re: Roma* beggars

I still dont understand why anyone gets away with such brazen, open shameless abuse and exploitation of children on our streets.

I'm hardly an investigative journalist and if I can observe all this on my way to Marks and Spencers or Dunnes (or beloved Aldi/Lidl) surely this proves the people who orchestrate and perpetuate this are totally unafraid of the law.

These children if uneducated in a trade or in morals will in all probability grow up to live off the state for the rest of their lives and cost society a fortune both in monetary and in human terms.

They might claim to be persecuted back home in Romania (and of course persecution of anyone is wrong) but its obvious to see how this could happen to those who use children as props because this behaviour is the exact opposite of that necessary to integrate into either society. No matter which country they live in they need to change from unlawful behaviour and I believe the government should force them to change by cracking down on the use of children as props.
I do not understand why non citizens who are behaving legally, have children here and are working and contributing to society get deported yet other non citizens who break the law so flagrantly do not.



To answer Orkas question below
orka said:
I would be interested in knowing the reply to the original question too - does anyone living in Ireland today NEED to beg in order to have sufficient food, shelter and clothing?
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There is a homeless shelter/ drop in point in Temple Bar where you can get a three course meal for 60 cents to a euro. The city has a few locations like this. Mostly our indigenous homeless are on drugs or alcoholics and spend most of their money on addictive substances but the gypsy thing appears to be a deliberately chosen lifestyle/culture choice to me while I doubt anyone chooses to be an alcoholic.
Now do you think in the context of a well balanced dinner for a euro anyone would starve on 185.80 euro per week Jobseekers allowance plus rent allowance plus medical card + childrens allowance ? Someone with malnutrition can also get prescription shakes and vitamins using the medical card.
Have you noticed there are more homeless people on the streets when summer time arrives ? The health board will pay for a bed and breakfast so even the issue of a bed for the night seems open to question.
 
Has anyone had Roma children come to your door - collecting money for a school for the deaf? We had one recently and the form she gave me was obviously photocopied, the same little girl came to the house begging - she had a note saying her mum had a baby to feed - I had some growing up milk in the house which I gave her - and she started giving out - begging for money!
 
Just on a point of information, from my own experience of talking to many of the Roma women who beg in Dublin, most of the ones I have spoken to are Albanian. Not that this takes from the original question.......!
 
pinkyBear said:
Has anyone had Roma children come to your door - collecting money for a school for the deaf? We had one recently and the form she gave me was obviously photocopied, the same little girl came to the house begging - she had a note saying her mum had a baby to feed - I had some growing up milk in the house which I gave her - and she started giving out - begging for money!
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Yes, I have given them (the adults) food in the past too! They leave disgusted with me!
 
Good point. These gypsies are not just solely from Romania and are very very different to the many decent true Romanian people who come here to work and work hard. From my understanding no country is proud of their gypsy population for the reasons outlined earlier. I saw a middle aged gypsy lady begging outside our local chuch. Later I saw her walk about five minutes up the road to be collected in a lovely new mercedes by I presume a family member or friend. Not sure what the setup was but somehow I didn't get the impression she really needed to beg, maybe more a lifestyle thing?
 
Or part of a scam - she is effectively being pimped. This is a very common practice, I'm originally from a small town and for the last 6 or 7 yearsRoma kids would be dropped at one end of the town from a new 4x4 and picked up at the other end before hitting the next town. This happens at least once a year.
 
What is the legal situation with the Roma people in Ireland anyway? Are they illegals? Have they been known to sleep homeless? Are they're treated as asylum seekers? Is there a charity that people can donate to, rather than have to give money/aid to potentially unscrupulous types?

I don't think anyone wants to see people go wanting in this country, but, at the same time it's reasonable to expect we're not being scammed.
 
Raskolnikov said:
What is the legal situation with the Roma people in Ireland anyway? Are they illegals? ... Are they're treated as asylum seekers? ...
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It depends on their nationality. As referenced previously, Roma have been living throughout continental Europe for centuries. They are traditionally mostly found in Eastern Europe, but there are also traditional Roma communities as far west as Spain and Portugal. All this means that they will have citizenship of the country where they traditionally lived.

So Roma from Romania or Bulgaria are entitled to enter Ireland without visas since 1 Jan 2007, when these countries joined the EU. They have right of residence here. However citizens of these two states have no automatic entitlement to work here, and also AFAIK have no entitlements to social welfare here.

Roma from Slovakia, Poland, Hungary etc have been allowed here since May 2005, and are also allowed to work here should they so desire. AFAIK, IF they have built up enough PRSI contributions here, they are then entitled to social welfare payments. But they can't just arrive here and try to claim social welfare.

As membership of the EU requires that basic human rights be respected, I believe EU citizens are for all practical purposes disbarred from claiming asylum in another EU country. However some Romanian Roma have succeeded in claiming asylum, or at least lodging asylum claims, before 2007 when Romania joined the EU. I do not know how such pending asylum claims are treated. Logically the asylum should be refused, social welfare payments stopped. But the person can't be deported as they're now EU citizens and entitled to reside here.

If the Roma here are from Albania, or ex-Yugoslavia (apart from Slovenia), then they've no automatic right of residence. However they could claim asylum. Whether they're successful is another matter, but until the case is decided, they are entitled to stay here and receive welfare. Another possibility is that they entered on false or stolen Romanian passports. In the case of a passport stolen from a Romanian Roma, I'm sure an Irish boarder guard couldn't tell the difference.

All in all, it's pretty complex.
 
From


Steps to take if you encounter a child begging

  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Treat the child with kindness, courtesy and respect[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you can, offer them some food or a hot drink[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Talk to a Garda on the street, phone the local Garda station, Health Board or[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Contact the ISPCC Leanbh service on 01 6447712.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Recognise that the child who begs is a child in need, with the same rights as any other child[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Raise the issue of child begging with your local representative or community activist group. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
 
Nice site in many ways but Ill quote below:

Identifies and works with parents, carers and children in a therapeutic way to encourage a better understanding of children’s needs and re-enforcing to parents the unacceptability of using children to beg.
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I think 'unacceptability' is too kind a word for it . 'Illegality' is a much better word. If it is a parent who is behind this illegality then that makes it exponentially worse.
My view is Lock the pimps up and throw away the key. Thats how you begin to reinforce the illegality of grooming children to beg when they are supposed to be in school. Thats the kind of 'therapy' the pimping parents need.
 
LOS is for discussing current affairs, sports etc. Please try to keep it rational/polite though.
 
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