Restaurant - Service Charge

Garrettod said:
I wish we had a strict policy with all restuarants in Ireland having the menus outside the door / in the window.
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We do:

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I only tip if I'm certain the staff will get the entrie tip. For instance in the Herbert Park Hotel all tips go to the hotel and the staff receive nothing.

I know another restaurant in Temple Bar where the management charges a 20% admin fee for credit card tips.


I don't think it's fair to just tip your waiter. If you get good service and the waiter has time to chat to you it's because other people are doing their jobs well - the bar staff mix the cocktails, the somalier opens the wine for you, the commis staff bring food to the service area and a whole host of people are working behind the scenes in the kitchen.


I think a better arrangement is where everybody gets a share of the tip. Otherwise only the waiting staff have an incentive to perform well.



Ste
 

When I say a token tip, I mean leaving something in the order of 5 to 10 cents on the table.

I know a number of places pool all the tips and then divide them among the staff. This includes waiting staff, kitchen, bar staff, and even bus boys. The split between the groups varies place to place. The upside of this is that you get something even when your section has a quiet night. The downside is that you only get a small portion of the large tip you bust your gut for. Overall, it tends to drive down the level of service. There's less incentive to do a really good job if the other waiting staff are doing a lousy job, and the tips are pooled.
 
stuffit said:
I know another restaurant in Temple Bar where the management charges a 20% admin fee for credit card tips.
Ste
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Came across this in Dungarvan last week - 10% mandatory service charge for groups of 8 or more - so I asked would the staff get it and they said "less a Credit card charge"

Told them to take the 10% back off my bill and gave a cash tip instead. In fairness they had no problem doing this.
 
stuffit said:
I only tip if I'm certain the staff will get the entrie tip. For instance in the Herbert Park Hotel all tips go to the hotel and the staff receive nothing.
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I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you, but are you sure about this? Why would the staff stand for this? Do the Herbert Park pay a higher wage in lieu?
 
wasn't there a court case in britain about credit card tips. and the courts found that if you put the tip on the credit card the establishment was entitled to keep it and not pass it onto the staff. Nearly sure I read this last year. Since then I dont add the tip to the card just leave it on the table or give it to who ever is at the till. I have come across this extra charge for groups as well - I think it's fairly common but its pure crap. Restaurants should be happy with the extra custom. Down side is that service is usually poor when theres a bigger group, at least thats been my experience. worst place I was stitched up in was Ashford Castle, grossly overrated. was in the bar and ordered a drink. Barman offered to put it on bill. I agreed out of lazyness as much as anything. when I was looking at receipt later saw service charge of 10% on bar tab. Won't fall for that scam again, then again wont be in Ashford Castle again either. was a 'bargain' weekend a few years ago and the best bit about the place was the dungeon bar. only place with any life about it.
 
I think that room service in a hotel includes an automatic service charge and, even though it's not room service at all, this can apply to drinks ordered in the bar and put on the room tab in some cases.
 
ClubMan said:
I think that room service in a hotel includes an automatic service charge and, even though it's not room service at all, this can apply to drinks ordered in the bar and put on the room tab in some cases.
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Have to say I have never seen that happen, and I'm not sure how I would react if it 'happened' to me. I'll be studying receipts I sign very carefully when charging drinks to my room in future.
 
My simple rule of thumb is - meals out at lunch time = I never tip, (becuase €5 on top of lunch can leave it very expensive. For evening dining if there is an service charge then I don't tip and if the serving staff are particularly nice and attentive and there is no service charge, then I leave a tip of €10 regardless of how much the bill is. (this applies to a table of 2-3 people. I leave more of a tip if the table is bigger.)
But tipping is becoming more popular simply because I think the people who get tips try to make you feel bad about not tipping eg Taxi drivers and hairdressers.
It always seems that every taxi driver I get seems to give me a sob story about how hard life is being a taxi driver and how little money there is to be made, and most hair dressers hover around you when your leaving the shop.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to tip everyone but I'm afraid that I just don't have the money to do so! Your looking at €20 - €30 extra a week on tips! (that is if you were tipping everyone you wanted to tip!
 
stuffit said:
I only tip if I'm certain the staff will get the entrie tip. For instance in the Herbert Park Hotel all tips go to the hotel and the staff receive nothing....
Ste
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Hi

You sure, your sure, your sure about this I have lunch there from time to time, the staff are generally good & I always tend to tip via the old plastic ...

I'd hate to think they don't get the tip, must remember this for the future ... and consider not doing business at the Herbert Park, if this is true.



I really wish we would bring in the practice in Ireland that I previously saw used in New York ... whereby bad service was acknowledged not by a complaint, but by tipping the "royal sum" of 1 penny (cent if you rather )

Cheers

G>
http://www.rpoints.com/newbie
 
That's my habit when I encounter really bad service. Find the smallest coin in my wallet, and leave it on the table.
 
Seagull said:
That's my habit when I encounter really bad service. Find the smallest coin in my wallet, and leave it on the table.
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But do you say to the person serving you why you're leaving the meagre tip?

No point in leaving a small tip to "make a statement" if you're not actually specifically making your opinions known.

If I'd received a crabby tip in my table serving days, the immediate thought would be "what a stingy ould/young ba*tard....". They're unlikely to think - "oh, maybe that gentleman/lady left me a bad tip because my service is poor, so I really must buck up for the future".

May have told this story before, but was in a restaurant in Clifden, party of 15. Food upstairs, drinks downstairs.

Food was fine, service okay, but barman downstairs abused a couple of our party for asking if there were any other places to check out in the town. Innocent enough question. Wanted to check out alternatives, but would most likely have stayed there anyway before abuse happened.

Anyway, coming to pay the bill, I spoke to the head waiter and explained that while we'd no problems with the upstairs part of the experience, we wouldn't be paying a tip because of the events downstairs.

Head waiter was very quick to point out (almost whinged) that it wasn't their fault. I explained that since they all worked for the same person, and were all providing a service to us as a group, overall, we didn't feel like the experience warranted any tip. I said that if he had any problems with that, he should either take it up with the boss or with the barman who'd caused them all the difficulty in the first place.

People can't address problems that you may perceive in a service situation if you don't clearly let them know what the problem you perceive is, and what they may do to fix it in the future.
 
If you received a 1c tip, would you seriously believe that the person was stingy as opposed to trying to make a point?

And why take it out on a waiter if there is an ignorant barman? Why not tip the waiter for a job well done, and then complain to the manager about the ignorant barman, and explain that you're leaving because of this.

I always tip if the service has been good, I don't hold it against service staff if something over which they have no control is crap.

The tip is for service, not the 'experience'. The experience includes the food, the decor etc. How are service staff meant to have any control over the wider 'experience'?

I have waited tables in my time. I despised people like you, i.e. who held me responsible for something outside my control, e.g. the guy and his daughter who had my undivided attention all night, and then left me a 20p tip because a cup of coffee was £1.50. I mentioned this to my boss, He didn't care-he had got payment for the coffee, and so was happy. It didn't make me any better off.
 
ronan_d_john said:
No point in leaving a small tip to "make a statement" if you're not actually specifically making your opinions known.
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Dead right. We could all learn a lot from your experience above. The more that people make their opinions known - both bad and good - the better for all of us.
 

So you're telling me that if the restaurant staff consistently get no tips for their service because the barman downstairs keeps messing it up for them, that nothing would change.

At some point in time, the barman would either be taken aside by the restaurant staff, or by management if they were complained to by the restaurant staff, and he'd be in no uncertain terms that what he was doing was impacting on peoples incomes upstairs.

You can be sure that if it's impacting on peoples earning power, something will be said or done about it internally, and overall then the experience would improve for the customer.

And I disagree with you that you can split out different aspects of an experience when you go out. I don't go to a restaurant just to get good service - I can get that at home.

I go out for the food, the surrroundings AND the service. And if I receive all 3, I'm happy, and I'll tip accordingly on the basis of the service I receive. If I don't, I'll withhold the tip, and explain precisely why I'm doing so.

Lets also be perfectly clear on this (and hopefully you won't despise me any more), I will withhold a tip on the basis of service, and service alone. If I don't like paying 1.50 for a coffee, I won't have gone into the place. But if I do go in, and pay 1.50 for a coffee, I'll expect service commensurate for buying coffee at that price - i.e. a far better service than if I went somewhere and paid 0.75 for coffee. And if I get that expected service, I'll tip. No problems there.
 

Maybe the waiting staff would take the barman aside, but you don't know that. If he was abusive towards customers, what would his attitude have been towards the waiting staff? And would the manager care? You paid the bill, and didn't complain to the manager at the time. Wrt to future business, I'm betting you were tourists, and unlikely to return anyway, so no skin off the manager's/owner's nose (this is precisely why my old boss didn't give two hoots about the complaint about the price of the coffee above). You could of course name and shame the place, but to be honest, just because I heard that a barman was abusive to certain customers, I don't know it that would stop me eating in a place. If it happened to me, I would take it up with him directly, or his manager, or the Guards if need be. I wouldn't hold it against the waiting staff.

ronan_d_john said:
You can be sure that if it's impacting on peoples earning power, something will be said or done about it internally, and overall then the experience would improve for the customer.
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You can't really be sure of anything.


We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've had great food and good service in places that are complete dives. I've had average food and crap service in places that were wonderfully decorated. I tip based on the service, not anything else. If there's a problem with the food, I complain and ask that it be taken back or the cost deducted from my bill. If I have a problem with the surroundings, well I won't sit down in the first place, or I'll not return, or I'll carry on regardless. If there is anything else bothering me, I'll take it up with the manager or the owner.


Let's also be clear that I said I despise people like you, I've never met you, and you never stiffed me on a tip, so I don't really have any cause to despise you. So your hopes have been answered.

Let's stick to the coffee example. How would you define service commensurate with a £1.50 (€1.90) cup of coffee vs. a €1 cup of coffee? If I get the cup to the table, bring milk and sugar and cream and one of those little biscuits or a mint, and then ask you 'will there be anything else sir'?, would that be commensurate with a €1.90 cup of coffee? But say you got a €1 cup of coffee, would it be ok if I fired the cup on the table, spilling half of it, and when you asked for milk, told you 'in a minute'? Would that be commensurate with a lower priced cup of coffee.

When I waited tables, every customer got pretty much the same treatment as if they'd ordered the €1.50 cup of coffee from me. Sometimes if I was tired, I mightn't have been as chatty, and sometimes when I had energy I would be very witty and charming etc. And sometimes customers got more service than others becuase they asked for it, or required it. Regardless of what the price of the meal was, or what the barman was like, I tried to give my best every time. I earned pretty good tips wherever I went. No-one ever came to me (other than that asshole I described above) and said 'the service was great, but we're not leaving you a tip because we don't like the colour of the carpet, and that spolied our experience'

I expect good service wherever I go. I tip accordingly.

To be honest, holding service staff accountable for something that is beyone their fault is a bit like having a go at the girl/guy behind the counter in Spar because a 2 pack of toilet roll is €0.99/€1.99/€2.99 whatever. It's not their fault.
 
My attitude, different from yours, is that the more I pay for something, the better service I expect. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree on outlooks here.

With regards to the cup of coffee situation, though it's a little trivial, lets look into it.

If you went to the proprieter of the €1.90 cup of coffee and asked, how come your price is higher than the €1 cup of coffee down the street, what would be one of the first thing he'd say?

This isn't conjecture, it's stated by many representatives of the food and drinks industry in this country. They'll tell you that it's staff costs that's pushing up the price.

In that case, if the staff cost is 90c, or whatever % higher, because staff are getting paid more, then I'd expect a commensurate improvement in service in one place over the other.
 
I would agree that I expect better service in a higher priced restaurant. When I'm paying cheap and cheerful prices, I don't expect silver service. When I'm paying top prices, I expect top service, and I also expect to pay for it. I tend to tip as a percentage of the bill, rather than a set amount. For average service, I normally leave 10%. For good service it will normally be about 15%, and it can be higher when I feel the waiting staff have been really good.
 
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